First impressions

[grayswandir]

I'm sorry, I'm just not convinced you didn't get those turns.

[Elhazzared]

Yes, I clearly did nothing nothing for several turns in the best run I ever had with any character just to come troll you over here... That is clearly what I did... Never mind the fact that there isn't anything in the log saying that I passed the turn or anything of the like.

Clearly I got nothing better to do than get an awesome run going that took me several hours to get to that point and suddenly i think... You know what would be good? If I killed myself here and went to the forum to complain... Cause that's really a good use of my time...

pitty I can't really get as much sarcasm in as it probably deserved.

[cttw]

From your character link, you were slowed. You might have missed that one turn from the slow. However those are just details to understand how you died. To live, you would have to have played smarter. You think your archmage is tankier than the berserker, as you posted above, and that just shows how simplistic your view of the game is. The archmage shields are indeed impressive and they can take the damage numbers they state. But they don't give you armor, physical resist or defense. Armor will reduce the damage of physical strikes, physical resist will reduce or eliminate physical effects like stun or freeze. And defense will make you harder to hit, helping avoid the hits from enemy abilities that apply debuffs. So in no way whatsoever is the archmage buffier than the berserker, and that is why everyone says you can't fight at melee range, you phase door to visible tiles for positioning and teleport for escaping. But you don't listen. You barely read the replies. You are annoying so that we will give up and you can win, not by beating the game, but by thrashing it on the forums beyond the boredom threshold of the other players. Just because you can't accept this game requires learning. A bit silly, is the kindest way I can put it.

[Elhazzared]

Yes, the beserker has some physical resistence whiche lowers the damage. Defense? Not so much. It works through mitigation, not through defense and while yes, you can give it defense, you lower your mitigation by doing so. Even then I doubt a 360 life with some physical mitigation beserker is tankier than a 324 life + 699 shield (not to mention aegis to possibly pump up the shield and healing when the sheild goes down and even creation of shields when I receive healing). The math of who can take more hits is pretty simple and most people playing archmages pretty much say the same. They get a good shield going and they are tankier than any other class.

As for me being slowed... I don't know, maybe, if I really was unable to act for 5 turns in a row I suppose a slow debuff could get in, run the full course and disapear. I do know that before I attacked I had 2 things going, runic saturation and mana surging. When I could act again I had the same two and the restoration field. Nothing else... BTW, my field of view in that place was 2 squares away. I couldn't see further than that so the use of phase door was in all circusntaces going to have a chance to fizzle.

I just cannot understand what exactly is your problem in admiting there was a problem with the game having so many consequtive turns... Heck even one single attack doing 304 damage is way too high as you witness there. Had I been there with a beserker it wouldn't be that high, but it would still be above 200 damage for sure which means a single strike abale to shave 2/3 of health from a beserker. Not exactly a fair amount of damage is it? But even that aside there is the several consequtive attacks. Even if you want to say slowed was in effect, fine, movement and attack would cover it. Want to say the enemy had extra movement speed, fine, movement and 2 attacks then. It still made 3 more attacks at least. Explain that to me if you can.

I've learned quite a bit about the game already. I'll probably learn more with time but there are things that certainly need changes and there are things that need explaining and this is certainly one of them.

[ghostbuster]

So you consider that the game is unfair, too random and globally too difficult. Others do not. All of this is somehow subjective and obviously, nobody will be able to convince the other.

While improvements are possible, what is certain is that there is no reason to make the game easier. ToME exists for 4 years now, it has been tested by thousands of users, with many many tweaks rounds and most players consider that the current balance is excellent. Many players even use harder difficulties and/or addons that make the game more challenging.

So I have a suggestion. What don't you use the "easy" difficulty combined with adventure or exploration mode. Received damage is reduced, healing increased and hence survivablity largely increased. With several lives, you can experiment, find strategies, etc. ToME is a complex game and these settings will allow to improve your technique, tactics, your knowledge of dungeons and monsters, etc.

And if you find something that you consider as a bug, try to understand what happened and post a report in the bug section. Ditto if you find a description that you consider as inaccurate.

[Elhazzared]

The reason I don't play on easy is because I don't consider the normal game all that hard. I do thing that overall difficulty is well done, there are however certain things that need to be largely changed.

One being the reliabillity of your CC breakers and your teleports.
Another being certain bosses needing a tweek in power.

While I'd get the bosses to be easier on easy, I certainly wouldn't have much fun strolling through the game unopposed.

All I want is for it to be less RNG reliant and again, tweeks to some creatures.

Granted some better descriptions and a better introdution to the game would be welcome.

[grayswandir]

Ah, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were trolling or whatever, just that I think you're mistaken about what actually occurred.

You describe a lot of impossible sounding things (movement infusions below the minimum, teleporting in a no teleport zone, teleporting into and destroying a wall, losing several turns in a row). From my point of view, it's a lot more likely that you're prone to misunderstanding what occurred, than you somehow triggering a super-rare bug that no one else has ever heard of roughly every fifth game.

From your character link, you were slowed.

I thought that that slow was from the very end of the log, after the turn in question had occurred.

[HousePet]

CC breakers and teleports are reliable.
They just have some simple rules to consider.
Its also pretty hard to make teleport more useful. You would have to do something like make it move you as far away from all enemies as possible.

[Elhazzared]

Ah, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you were trolling or whatever, just that I think you're mistaken about what actually occurred.

You describe a lot of impossible sounding things (movement infusions below the minimum, teleporting in a no teleport zone, teleporting into and destroying a wall, losing several turns in a row). From my point of view, it's a lot more likely that you're prone to misunderstanding what occurred, than you somehow triggering a super-rare bug that no one else has ever heard of roughly every fifth game.

From your character link, you were slowed.

I thought that that slow was from the very end of the log, after the turn in question had occurred.

You clearly have the log, I did post a link to the dead character in question. You see at least 4 enemy attacks. You may or may not belive whn i say the enemy still had to spend a turn moving one square towards me. However I've provided evidence of 4 attacks in a row made against me while I was waiting for my turn to do something. if you can't belive the evidence presented i do not know what else to say really.

Housepet - CC breakers are not reliable. Often you have several CC effects on you and it doesn't removes the one you want. In fact often you have several on you and you need at least 2 or 3 gone. To make CC breakers reliable they would have to remove all CC effects. Sure divide it by physical, magical and mental, but make the CC breakers break all CC conditions to their type.

Teleport is not reliable the moment it doesn't allows you to pick where you teleport to. If it's a roll of the dice it can never be reliable... The reason you telepor away is because you're taking a beating and if you end up in a room with enemies... Well it's out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Reliabillity comes when under any circunstance you know that by doing something, it will have the desired effect.

[donkatsu]

I think the OP actually makes some reasonable points, they're just hard to see because he's so misinformed.

The first thing I would say is, you should invest 4/5 into Teleport and not into Phase Door. Controlled phase door can fizzle, but controlled teleport cannot. There's the 100% non-RNG-reliant escape that you're looking for. If you want another one, Probability Travel is another escape that has zero elements of chance (funny that, despite its name).

Relentless Pursuit is an example of a really well-designed "CC breaker". It's not always going to save you, but you always know exactly what is going to happen before you use it. What if wild infusions did something like that? Reduce the duration of all detrimental effects of that category, either by a constant like Relentless Pursuit or by a percentage? This way it won't save you every time you get stunned, but there is no chance involved and it always helps. Or if you want to keep wild infusions the way they are, add that effect to a different inscription. I know a bunch of runes who would like some help.

PS for Elhazzared: What happened in the character log has already been clearly explained to you (unarmed attack speed, you were slowed, glove proc = 3-4 consecutive attacks), and anything outside of that is subject to your... spotty memory, considering your claim of <300% movement infusions and the like.

[Plak]

You were stunned, which halves movement speed, and moving doesn't appear on logs. Given that you were also slowed by 30%, attempting to move could lead to the boss being able to act two or even three times before you can do anything. What most certainly happened is:
-You got stunned. First mistake.
-You didn't run away after being stunned. Second mistake.
-You found the Horned Horror close to you and didn't use your movement infusion to get a clear line of sight for your phase door. Third mistake.
-You attempted to move away from it while stunned. Fourth mistake.

Then it wrecked you, because it's the Horned Horror and you messed up. It's not the same boss you're used to fighting in the Maze, and there are two warning signs for that: the dungeon is half-destroyed, and it's full of horrors. If something looks dangerous, it probably is (and I did advise you to save the maze for later when the floor has holes in it).

There's a difference between "reliable" and "lets you get off scot free from any situation". A physical wild is reliable at getting rid of a single physical affliction. That's the only thing it's supposed to do, so if that's your CC breaker and you find yourself in a situation where you need to remove a specific status among many, you messed up. Did you notice how all stuns come from melee attacks at this point in the game? As an Archmage, don't be in melee and you won't be stunned. If you already have a physical status and there's an ice-using foe in sight, pop a movement infusion to get freeze immunity for a few turns. CC is meant to be strong in this game and the ability to remove several status is ridiculously powerful - the earliest you can get something like that is by reaching level 22 as a Shalore or a Halfling. However, since this game is mostly symmetrical, even bosses have about as much trouble dealing with status as you do. By preferring not to use debuffs, you handicap yourself. A few points in Flameshock would help you much more than maxing out damage skills.

Edit: putting 3 extra points in Teleport to let you control it can help, but you definitely shouldn't drop your controlled phase door. It's your repositioning skill, the one that lets you stay away from melee range. It will never fizzle if you use your movement infusion first and don't attempt to teleport out of LOS. An infusion as good as Relentless Pursuit would be OP and completely trivialize status (as well as making yours useless against infusion-using enemies).

[grayswandir]

You were stunned, which halves movement speed, and moving doesn't appear on logs.

That's what I was missing! I always forget that stunning slows your movement speed. The log makes a lot more sense now.



I'd actually like to see a duration lowering inscription. It would have to be fairly weak - I'm thinking something like "reduce the duration of all detrimental physical effects by 3" at this point in the game, maybe going up to 8 at the very high end. Or you could make it stronger and remove the 'detrimental' restriction.

[donkatsu]

Edit: putting 3 extra points in Teleport to let you control it can help, but you definitely shouldn't drop your controlled phase door. It's your repositioning skill, the one that lets you stay away from melee range. It will never fizzle if you use your movement infusion first and don't attempt to teleport out of LOS.

Yes, and you should also put 5/5 into all your Aegis talents, and max the Light tree. The point is that at level 16 or whatever you have limited generics and between Phase Door and Teleport, you should get 4/5 Teleport first. Repositioning can be done with a movement infusion, there is no 100% safe escape inscription at this stage in the game.

An infusion as good as Relentless Pursuit would be OP and completely trivialize status (as well as making yours useless against infusion-using enemies).

Yes, because obviously if you give A the same design as B, then it must come with the same numbers. Or are you seriously suggesting that a 2 turn reduction, or 30% reduction, on all physical effects would "completely trivialize status". Come on, now.

[Elhazzared]

Again, I didn't had any conditions. I had one that didn't allowed me to use my 2 main spells and I waited (by waited I mean done other stuff that wasn't attacking) that those went away. I didn't had any condition when the horned horror moved in and took several turns in a row to nearly kill me.

You keep saying I tried to move away when I haven't tried to do any movement of any kind. I will tell you again and hopefully you will be able to read this time around. I used flame when it was my turn and the horror not in contact, there was 1 space in between us (and by the way, that is exactly how far I can see to even try to attack it is it's not like I had much of a choice except using the eye, but the room is full of pillars which block line of sight for the eye and line of sight for my spells). After I attacked it with the flame it proceeded to move one square in my direction. Do a ton of attacks and leave me nearly dead! I didn't tried to move away, I didn't tried to do anything. Use flame, a second later I am at 11 life. Stop saying I am doing things that I didn't do!

The reason I say CC breakers are bad is not really because of my archmage character. Previously I played a lot with the beserker and I had to deal with tons of detrimental stats all the time... Why? CC breakers are not reliable and they should be, otherwise their usefulness boils down to nothing.

And yes, I'll start putting more points into teleport too which will be helpful for the mage. Unfortunatly anything else doesn't has a reliable way to get out of situations that were completly out of their control.

[jotwebe]

I wanted to stop posting here, but oh well. One last time.

Unfortunatly anything else doesn't has a reliable way to get out of situations that were completly out of their control.

But the circumstances weren't completely out of your control. Going up against the Horned Horror as an Archmage, you should have been scouting (arcane eye, wand of clairvoyance, track item, track or precognition from escorts), so you wouldn't walk right into him. Plus, the moment an unknown boss (or elite even) shows up, you should have been inspecting him and checking out, in order of importance,
a) his talents
b) his resistances
c) his immunities (switch for characters with non-elemental damage)

Pretty much the only guarantee in ToME is that things won't one-shot you. Two-shots happen, and this wasn't even that.

Don't run around a dark dungeon with only light radius 2, especially not as a ranged class, especially not as an Archmage going up against a boss specialized in killing spellcasters, don't target Phase Door where you cannot see if you really need it to work.