fluff vs gameplay disargeements

[The Revanchist]

Zigur aren't evil, they're just misunderstood And a bit sadistic and nuts sometimes... ;(

Could the same not be said, one way or another, of any of the "despised" groups in ToME? Thinking they specifically are in the right, and are justified in any action they take, to serve their purpose.

[Doctornull]

Zigur aren't evil, they're just misunderstood And a bit sadistic and nuts sometimes... ;(

Could the same not be said, one way or another, of any of the "despised" groups in ToME? Thinking they specifically are in the right, and are justified in any action they take, to serve their purpose.

Most people do prefer to see their own actions as righteous, yeah.

Which groups in specific do you consider "despised"?

[The Revanchist]

Zigur aren't evil, they're just misunderstood And a bit sadistic and nuts sometimes... ;(

Could the same not be said, one way or another, of any of the "despised" groups in ToME? Thinking they specifically are in the right, and are justified in any action they take, to serve their purpose.

Most people do prefer to see their own actions as righteous, yeah.

Which groups in specific do you consider "despised"?

...offhand? The Elves as a whole, especially the Shalore. (Thaloren are "mistrusted")
The Orcs as a whole. (by everyone)
The Zigur. (by anybody who isn't suicidally opposed to magic)
Anybody remotely resembling a practitioner of Magic. (the arcane sort)
Necromancers, in a bad way.
Corruptors. (by "good" mages, and Zigur)
I doubt many people enjoy the company of Horrors. (whether they consider themselves good company is suspect)
The Rhaloren, by the Shalore.
From what I understand, the Yeach also hate everybody.

In essence, I think every group has another group opposed to them. Some more than others.

[Chronorider]

Would you rather side with the mages and their crazy experiments that keep endangering the world? As nuts as the Zigur are, they are built on a truth - magic is dangerous. The quest of the campaign is to save the world from two Angolwen-trained sorcerers. Other powers threatening the region included a deactivated Atamathon, a cult bent on ripping open a portal to a world of demons, two necromancers (one in possession of a supreme Sher'Tul artifact) and an insane Tempest.

Zigur are saving lives. Okay, so they're also killing innocents in the process, but in their view they are fully justified in the completion of a greater good.

Correct me if I got the wrong impression, but this is how I see it: Magic is a dangerous force, but for all of the harm its practitioners have caused they are at least trying to understand and control their environment. Other forms of mysticism appear to be able to achieve a great deal in combat, but only the Mages (well, and the Sher'Tul) seem to harness their art for the transformation of every day life and the improvement of culture as a whole. I view it as Maj'Eyal's analogue for science and technology. In our world technology enabled the most horrible of atrocities. Without it us humans would simply be unable to affect the world on such a grand scale. On the other hand technology is largely what allows us to rise so far above our animal kin. The average quality of life is higher than it has ever been before, constant warfare is no longer the norm, and for those living in the developed world the struggle to survive no longer defines most-every waking moment.

I can understand the reasoning of the Zigur, but forsaking magic seems like giving up on ever becoming something more. One could argue that they are ensuring the survival of all races, but what will the noble savages do when the aging sun burns out or a meteor threatens to destroy all life? The world they fought to protect shall become their coffin. It is not at all certain the world would survive until then if magic ever became prolific once more, nor is it certain that the mages of that age could solve this problem, but at least this way the world has a shot, and a shot is all one can really ask for.

[loimprevisto]

One could argue that they are ensuring the survival of all races, but what will the noble savages do when the aging sun burns out or a meteor threatens to destroy all life?

Live for The Way. The Way will unite us and bring us triumph over these obstacles. When all have embraced The Way, there will be no need for these petty arguments that stem from fear and jealousy. Maj'Eyal and the rest of the world will be at peace, and a mage would no sooner hurt their neighbor than they would cut off their own hand.

It is the only way to prevent another Age of Dusk, surely this is obvious?

[The Revanchist]

One could argue that they are ensuring the survival of all races, but what will the noble savages do when the aging sun burns out or a meteor threatens to destroy all life?

Live for The Way. The Way will unite us and bring us triumph over these obstacles. When all have embraced The Way, there will be no need for these petty arguments that stem from fear and jealousy. Maj'Eyal and the rest of the world will be at peace, and a mage would no sooner hurt their neighbor than they would cut off their own hand.

It is the only way to prevent another Age of Dusk, surely this is obvious?

I may be having a lore-fail, but isn't The Way very prone to totalitarianism? The strongest will has the biggest voice, because they are all connected?

[Pyris311]

Good to see such passion for this game!

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

One could argue that they are ensuring the survival of all races, but what will the noble savages do when the aging sun burns out or a meteor threatens to destroy all life?

Live for The Way. The Way will unite us and bring us triumph over these obstacles. When all have embraced The Way, there will be no need for these petty arguments that stem from fear and jealousy. Maj'Eyal and the rest of the world will be at peace, and a mage would no sooner hurt their neighbor than they would cut off their own hand.

It is the only way to prevent another Age of Dusk, surely this is obvious?

I may be having a lore-fail, but isn't The Way very prone to totalitarianism? The strongest will has the biggest voice, because they are all connected?

Not really. As I understand it, it's more a communal hive-mind. One thought, one voice, many bodies, not many voices drowned out and subsumed to the one, but a telepathic communion that effectively treats the entire race as a single solid body, as one entity. As a result, they have no fear of self-sacrifice, since losing one 'cell' (or one person, by more normal logic) in the millions of a 'race', means nothing. There will always be more yeeks, the race would recover.

However, this would also mean because there is only one will, it would seem to indicate a loss of free will. But the concept isn't easy to wrap ones mind around.

[Bad Badger]

The Way is described as a psionic "gestalt". Simply put, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

[Fizanko]

The Way is the worst of the evil. It will remove your individuality and free will !

See that video about Wayists and you will understand immediately how bigger as a threat than Orcs and Urh'Rok the Way can be !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... hQEUg#t=35

Destroy all the Yeeks before it's too late ! The Halflings understood that quickly !

[Parcae2]

One round is six seconds, which is more or less consistent with the time it takes to swing a sword. This means that the average citizen of Maj'Eyal (100HP, .25 regen) can heal from any non-fatal injury in less than 40 minutes.

On the other hand, there are diseases that can kill you in half a minute, sometimes so violently that you explode.

[Doctornull]

One round is six seconds

That's how it works in some (not all) editions of D&D, but is that actually spelled out anywhere in this game?

If so, could you provide me with a cite location?

Thanks!