How far out of depth is too much?

[exarion]

I just lost a skeleton reaver (not to an out of depth creature), and during my adventures I encountered so seriously out of depth creatures. Of particular note was a heavy bone giant (level 35) at level 17 in level 1 of the halfling ruins, and a queen ant (level 25 unique) at level 12 in normal old forest. Neither of these were found in a vault. On my other characters I have encountered a worm that walks (level 25) also at level 12 in the alt maze, and on that same level a radiant horror. Given all of this, I would like to ask the community how far above the player's level monsters should be allowed to spawn. I could handle the queen ant and heavy bone giant due to being a reaver, but I did lose the character I found the two overleveled horrors on.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

The game isn't choosing to spawn over your level. These OoD spawns are (based on what I've been told) set because the creature type exists in the list for that zone, but has a minimum level far above the zone's level. (Which in most cases, is set by the players level, within a certain range.) As a result, they spawn at their minimum level. (Often 35, for the nasty stuff.) Though finding that many is a horrible run of luck for you.

As I've learned from my runs in the ID after winning, level may not make as huge a difference as it sounds. (A level 54 was taking out level 100's. Struggling, but managing it.) However, talent level, and the creatures power itself (some are far more dangerous, due to talent combinations) makes a much greater difference. A level 5, for instance, is going to be creamed by most level 20's. But a level 20, can probably handle level 40's, in small numbers, with preparation, and a good assortment of leveled talents. (These are hypothetical numbers to illustrate a point, not a literal example.) Worm's that walk are notoriously overpowered, mostly due to their disease that rips massive chunks of your health away. (It's on a par with Middle Finger of Impending Doom, and similarly OP talents.) Coupled with that, they pack some nasty blight techniques.

Bone giants live for a long time, but can be kited. (They do have a ranged bleed attack, and I think some can get rush. Runed ones often get a rune spell attack.) Best solution with them is often to run, and just retreat from the level. (Reassemble and bone shield between them, can make them difficult to kill, if you aren't appropriately matched.)

Queen ant I can't comment on, but I wonder if you found it in an ant pit. (Open room, filled to brim with ant's. Same design for a snake pit too.) Beyond that, I don't really recall what it's talents are, other then making some more ants. I can't offer insight on it.

Radiant horror is another one of those 'run' situations. Like the bone giant, it's barrier and healing light spells let it live for a long time. And unlike the bone giant, it has no problems nuking the crap out of you from a distance.

Hopefully that helps some if you run into these again.

[exarion]

The game isn't choosing to spawn over your level. These OoD spawns are (based on what I've been told) set because the creature type exists in the list for that zone, but has a minimum level far above the zone's level. (Which in most cases, is set by the players level, within a certain range.) As a result, they spawn at their minimum level. (Often 35, for the nasty stuff.) Though finding that many is a horrible run of luck for you.

As I've learned from my runs in the ID after winning, level may not make as huge a difference as it sounds. (A level 54 was taking out level 100's. Struggling, but managing it.) However, talent level, and the creatures power itself (some are far more dangerous, due to talent combinations) makes a much greater difference. A level 5, for instance, is going to be creamed by most level 20's. But a level 20, can probably handle level 40's, in small numbers, with preparation, and a good assortment of leveled talents. (These are hypothetical numbers to illustrate a point, not a literal example.) Worm's that walk are notoriously overpowered, mostly due to their disease that rips massive chunks of your health away. (It's on a par with Middle Finger of Impending Doom, and similarly OP talents.) Coupled with that, they pack some nasty blight techniques.

Bone giants live for a long time, but can be kited. (They do have a ranged bleed attack, and I think some can get rush. Runed ones often get a rune spell attack.) Best solution with them is often to run, and just retreat from the level. (Reassemble and bone shield between them, can make them difficult to kill, if you aren't appropriately matched.)

Queen ant I can't comment on, but I wonder if you found it in an ant pit. (Open room, filled to brim with ant's. Same design for a snake pit too.) Beyond that, I don't really recall what it's talents are, other then making some more ants. I can't offer insight on it.

Radiant horror is another one of those 'run' situations. Like the bone giant, it's barrier and healing light spells let it live for a long time. And unlike the bone giant, it has no problems nuking the crap out of you from a distance.

Hopefully that helps some if you run into these again.

I survived the bone giant (and later a runed bone giant in a vault) and queen ant (who has slime spit and some other oozemancer skills). I am also aware of how things are generated, but I was wondering how people thought on severely out of depth creatures.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Outside the early levels, I think they're manageable. And a part of the way the game is built. (which was part of the point of my previous post. Sorry if I didn't really make it clearer.) That said, running into two level 35's on old forest 2, outside a vault (Orc Cryomancer and Orc Pyromancer) when you're only level 12 is a bit much. Doubly so when one of them can easily one-hit you from full health. (Freeze OP.) But outside those early levels, most OoD spawns can be managed. Sometimes by running, sometimes by fighting, but typically, they don't completely screw you, unless you've gone antimagic/for some foolish reason don't have a teleport. Outside the OoD cryomancer, nothing I've met that's been out of depth (and hasn't been in a vault) has been able to one-shot me on sight.

I could wish it could be a bit more tightly restricted, bar it from tier-1 dungeons. At the least. Other then that, I'm not sure it matters too terribly much, though the alt maze changes things a bit, given the small making running harder, and exiting requiring rod of recall, since there are no up stairs.

Overall, OoD spawning isn't out of control, except in the ID. Characters who start the game there can be truly truly screwed, if they don't get a teleport, and walk into a room on floor 10 with something like a worm that walks, orc cryomancer, etc.

[HousePet]

I like them. It wakes me up and gives me a challenge.
Its just a shame you don't really get any more xp or higher level loot for killing them. :/

[Suslik]

Absolutely love this kind of thing. The more such creatures - the merrier.

[Krsqk]

I like them. It wakes me up and gives me a challenge.
Its just a shame you don't really get any more xp or higher level loot for killing them. :/

Wait, you don't get more XP for higher lever mobs? What determines the XP amount, then, the "quality" (boss/elite/etc) of the mob?

[HousePet]

Rank appears to be the biggest contributer to xp amount.

[Atarlost]

If you don't get XP commensurate with the danger from OoD monsters than just about any depth is too much.

[Hachem_Muche]

Level does factor into the exp value of NPC's, it's just that rank is even more important and most "critters" don't award enough exp to move the meter in many cases.

OOD monsters are spawned according to rarity, which in turn is adjusted by how far above or below the level of the zone they are. They get more rare the bigger the difference, either up or down.