Question about the game

[BasiC]

Stun should just be what the word means.
Having an effect called "stun" that doesnt actually stun is silly.
What player in his right mind would guess the effects of "stun" ToME uses...A stun stuns you..
I.e no movement and no skill use.If that is too powerful, reduce its availability.
Either that or change the name of the effect.

[donkatsu]

You're talking about a different issue entirely now. Right now you're talking about the second aspect of stun (according to the order that I explained above) whereas before I believe you were talking about the first. If you want to have a "lock" graphic, it would make no sense to only put it on the four talents that were put on cooldown because of stun. Rather, while stunned, you would put the "lock" on all talents that are cooling down, regardless of whether it was originally put on cooldown because of the stun or because you used the talent, since they are all affected in the same way. Otherwise the user would see the lock graphic on four of his talents, and then wonder why all of his other talents aren't cooling down either.

I do agree with bricks' suggestion to overhaul the Stun effect, but isolating the four talents that are put on cooldown because of the Stun is just silly.

[BasiC]

Its not silly because it indicates to the player something is different than the usual state of having skills on cooldowns in a clear and precise way which is exactly what is missing ATM.

[bricks]

I do agree with bricks' suggestion to overhaul the Stun effect, but isolating the four talents that are put on cooldown because of the Stun is just silly.

Naturally the lock would be on any talent that can't reduce it's cooldown but still has a cooldown. Apart from Stun I think there are a few other instances where this display would be useful (I forget the names of the relevant Mindslayer talents).

Finally talents should not be put on cooldown by stun because not having your talents cooldown for the duration of the stun is powerful enough.

Perhaps it could have a minimum number of talents that are affected, so if you have less than, say, four talents on cooldown, the difference would randomly be chosen from the target's talents. Eliminating that effect entirely would be a serious nerf to the player's Stunning abilities.

[donkatsu]

I do agree with bricks' suggestion to overhaul the Stun effect, but isolating the four talents that are put on cooldown because of the Stun is just silly.

Naturally the lock would be on any talent that can't reduce it's cooldown but still has a cooldown. Apart from Stun I think there are a few other instances where this display would be useful (I forget the names of the relevant Mindslayer talents).

(emphasis added)
This is what I'm saying.

This a lot of the time is confusing and slows the pace down since you must watch and follow when your shit is on a natural cooldown or when its are on cooldown cause of some external reason.
IMO it should be better indicated like perhaps with a different color...

(emphasis added)
This is the part I object to, but it seems that you've retreated from this position now. Stun, as an external force, puts some talents on cooldown, but it also keeps everything on continued cooldown regardless of how it came to be on cooldown in the first place. I'm saying that it doesn't matter whether it was put on cooldown due to an external reason or not, either way the timer won't go down if you're stunned.

To put it into even more explicit terms, here is an example of our disagreement. I have six talents: Shield Pummel, Overpower, Assault, Healing Light, Bathe in Light, and Barrier. I get stunned, and now everything except Bathe in Light and Barrier are on a 1 turn cooldown, for an external reason: the stun. Also, none of my talents are cooling down.

Next turn, I use Bathe in Light. Now it's on an 10 turn cooldown, for an internal reason: I used it. There is nothing external about the reason why Bathe in Light is currently on cooldown. I was the one who decided that yes, Bathe in Light should be on cooldown now. It wasn't on cooldown before, but now I am going to make it be on cooldown. Your original proposal suggests we differentiate between Bathe in Light, and say Assault. Assault being on cooldown because of an external reason, while Bathe in Light is only on cooldown because I used it.

So would we put a lock graphic on Assault, but not Bathe in Light? No, because neither of them are cooling down, and that's not related to any particular talent: it's an effect on your character that affects ALL of your talents. If we singled out the talents that were put on cooldown due to an external reason, players would think that those talents are somehow affected differently. They're not. The full difference between Assault and Bathe in Light is displayed in their numbers: 1 and 10, respectively. Instead, I would just give Stun an obvious visual effect like Blind or Confusion. A new player gets blinded or confused, and they don't just keep mashing buttons. Something weird and scary happens to their whole screen, so they figure something serious has happened and they stop to figure out what's going on, preferably by reading things like status effect descriptions. This system seems to work well for Confusion. A similar thing could be done to Stun.

[Hunter]

Stun should just be what the word means.
Having an effect called "stun" that doesnt actually stun is silly.
What player in his right mind would guess the effects of "stun" ToME uses...A stun stuns you..
I.e no movement and no skill use.If that is too powerful, reduce its availability.
Either that or change the name of the effect.

I wouldn't say "stun" necessarily implies total immobility. I've been "stunned" IRL (hit in the head, for instance) and was perfectly capable of staggering about or swinging wildly (had I felt a need to, that is) while shaking it off.

[BasiC]

in all other games a Stun immobilizes you and stops you from doing anything.

[Grey]

*All* other games? Not true... And what does that matter anyway? As long as ToME4's mechanics are clear the standards set by other games need not be followed. ToME breaks the code in penty of other areas.

[PureQuestion]

*All* other games? Not true... And what does that matter anyway? As long as ToME4's mechanics are clear the standards set by other games need not be followed. ToME breaks the code in penty of other areas.

I believe it was stated - entirely accurately - that the word "stun" is invariably a status that has the effect of completely immobilizing the victim - which is what Daze does in Tome. The thing that was pointed out is that that's what stun means, not just in games but in any dictionary.

[phantomglider]

The thing that was pointed out is that that's what stun means, not just in games but in any dictionary.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stunned

3. stunned - in a state of mental numbness especially as resulting from shock; "he had a dazed expression on his face"; "lay semiconscious, stunned (or stupefied) by the blow"; "was stupid from fatigue"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/daze

Synonyms: daze, bemuse, benumb, stun, stupefy
These verbs mean to dull or paralyze the mental capacities with or as if with a shock:

Stun doesn't necessarily means complete immobility; it can merely be an inability to effectively concentrate on correctly performing actions. It is not incorrect to say somebody has been stunned if they took a blow to the head and are staggering around and ineffectively flailing at things.

[PureQuestion]

Mhm. I've most often seen it referred to in regards to a state of shock; I personally associate the word with faltering - pausing for a moment in shock.

But you know, whatever. It's just a status.

[edge2054]

in all other games a Stun immobilizes you and stops you from doing anything.

Sorry, I have to jump all over this and call BS. Stun in D and D for instance is nothing like this.

Stun in Tome 2 and Angband were nothing like this (that was paralysis).

I'm sure the list goes on.

This conversation is silly.