[b21] Stores, Vaults and Artifacts

[vance]

I just have a couple of observations about Beta 21 that I want to explore here under the banner of constructive feedback.

Have hit mid 30s on my Dwarven fighter I have noticed a few things with loot which I think undermine enjoyment a little-

a) Stores - initially really chuffed at all the fine loot you can stroll up or purchase. Tons of purple loot ("double-egos"), lots of blues, the odd artifact and more. But as the game progressed I started to get a little irritated. Is this game about boldly wresting ancient treasures from the hands/claws/tentacles/disembodied ectoplasmic extremeties of the fell creatures gibbering in the fearful dark of dungeons? Or is about the most spiritless of all modern activities...shopping? Having the occassional good item pop up for purchase is fine but in the course of hitting mid 30s with my Dwarven fighter I did not find a single "purple" item in a dungeon whereas they were plastering the shelves of all the town shops I visited. The stores were a veritable dragon's hoard compared to the measly pickings in Dreadfell. I think this needs to be completely reversed. Its killing the joy of discovery - to the victor, not the shopper, go the spoils of war. This point has also been raised here. Some serious "nerfing" is in order, my Dwarf fighter really should not have been able to buy a voratun longsword at level 10.

b) Vaults - I love the challenge of vaults but after raiding so many and often dying I come out thinking - why bother? To use another tired term from MMRPGs "risk vs reward" needs revisiting when it comes to vaults. I don't expect all vaults to be stuffed with finery but the larger nasty ones really ought to have better quality loot and at least a gauranteed artifact/purple or two. This has been bugging me a while and I suppose is exacerbated by the Beta 21 store bonanza.

c) Randarts - maybe this is just me but when I discover randarts they always seem to be about 5-10 levels lower in terms of relative power compared to other loot I am finding on the same dungeon level. I don't know how the randart mechanic works but it always seems to be the case as I have been progressing through the last few Betas. Anyone else notice this?

In short the dungeon v store loot distribution needs a radical overhaul.

Anyway hats off to Dark God for the amazing progress on Tome 4 - I have been playing on and off since the early Betas. This post is about a desire to make it better and I hope its regarded in that light.

[darkgod]

Hello, points taken in good light

Stores should be useful but not the main or sole source of loot I agree; many steps have been taken toward this for b22 taht should make stores still good be less uber and more importantly make loot in the dungeons more interresting too

Vaults & randarts; I still have to take a closer look at those yeah

[jenx]

I agree entirely with the points above, particularly about vaults. They are so dangerous and yet so unrewarding. And in b21 I basically play to raise money (i.e. try to get Extract Gems Talent Tree, pump it to 5/5 and then kill Wierdling Beast for Trans.... thingo, and then turn everything into gems to sell - Why all this? simply to buy the brilliant stuff in shops, most of which I never see in the dungeons, even at high levels. Elemental voratun greatmaul of ruin - it will appear in a shop eventually!

[Hirumakai]

I'm not sure if I agree about vaults. Of course it might just be the characters I've been playing (mostly Arcane Blades, one per release to see how the game has changed, and I use them as a reference point), but I've had very little trouble with vaults lately. Certainly at high levels they seem to be a breeze.

I did every single vault I came across with Hiruma Ryu (who was set to Roguelike difficulty), as I came across them (I.e. I didn't intentionally wait until a higher level and then come back specifically for the vault). This may be due to the stunning options available to an Arcane blade. Admittedly on the loot end, I generally found 0-1 useful things per vault, although I did find a really nice Hardened Voratun Plate Armor of the Dragon with resist values around 27-30% (including physical).

9 out of 12 of his end game pieces of equipment were drops or quest rewards, and I think 3/5 of his runes/infusions were drops. However prior to end game, most (75% maybe ) of his equipment was bought, with the notable exception of his main weapon (Gnarg's Murderblade) and about half the runes/infusions.

[shooth]

Re vaults: Keep em hard! Yes, they are risky! Yes, a skeleton mage with a belt-pouch full of badassery waits behind that door, consumed by a driving desire to make a necklace from your upper intestines! So... tread carefully. Come back when better prepared, or after you've had that next beer. Sometimes I actually have to come BACK to the dungeon to hit the vaults... and I like it that way. Unlike (so many) dangerous conditions in this game, vaults are easily avoided.

Re Randart: I completely agree with the initial assessment - seems like the power of the objects is usually quite weak compared even with ego items. Also, I would argue that more Artifact generation should instead be randart... I find the "canon" of artifacts does not vary significantly between games. Perhaps this just means I should submit artifacts or something.

shooth