A question around the starting classes

[madmonk]

I have been looking and thinking about the range of starting classes that TomE has...

Playing style in any Roguelike breaks down to 2 distinct styles - close up and personal (the archetypal Warrior) and those who fight from a distance (archers and mages)

All good! See below, blue ones have no range ability, and pinky ones have range ability.

Warrior

Fighter
Berserker
Arcane Blade (limited range ability)

Archer

Archer
Slinger

Rogue

Rogue
Shadowblade

Mage
Alchemist (Construct Summoner)

So my question is...

Are people happy with the balance of close combat vs ranged choices?

Apologies for the multi-coloured/etc layout.

[Grey]

Alchemists have ranged abilities too.

Overall I'd say it's a fine balance, especially since those without ranged abilities generally have either good defensive abilities, avoidance abilities, or mobility options.

[Hedrachi]

Yeah I agree, it's pretty well-balanced. Warrior classes get a faceful of arrows but done right they survive. Archer and slinger require a little finesse as you can't move and shoot in the same action. Alchy is probably the most complex of them all for players new to TOME but not rpgs/roguelikes as he's a mage with a summoned helper, but has range limitations and "grenades." But once you figure out how to play one, Alchy is good.

[Grey]

I think the alchemist is a great one to give new players to play around with, to show something complex and interesting that they can develop strategies with, instead of letting just have the last everything with spells Archmage.

[madmonk]

I had completely forgotten about the Alchemist's ranged abilities... My bad!

OK, so the balance looks a lot better now!

[darkgod]

Yeah

I'm pondering if we thus need or not the hedge wizard or whatever we call them

[madmonk]

Having a starting spell-slinger might be good!

People like Mages...

On the other hand Mages can be unlocked easily enough!

[yufra]

On the other hand Mages can be unlocked easily enough!

I cannot remember... how obvious is it to a first-time user that you can unlock things? The birth menu has the little ticker at the top saying how many options you have I think, but maybe we should poll that question?

[TheRani]

If a rogue has trap launcher, they can lay traps from a distance. Not a direct distance attack, but an indirect one certainly, if they can get the enemies to actually step on the traps.

[edge2054]

Hedge Wizard would still appeal to people that want a 'caster' as opposed to a bomb chucking pet class. Not everyone likes pet classes or archers and they just want to blow stuff up with *magic*.

Plus I think the class has potential to be fun and unique enough to be enjoyable even after archmages are unlocked.

[madmonk]

[I cannot remember... how obvious is it to a first-time user that you can unlock things? The birth menu has the little ticker at the top saying how many options you have I think, but maybe we should poll that question?

It's not obvious at all

[Hedrachi]

Maybe add a tooltip that pops up in-game after 10K-50K turns if nothing gets unlocked, and nothing already has been unlocked? (can you really go 50K turns without unlocking Summoners?) Something like:

Code: Select all

Unlocking classes, races, and talent trees in TOME
--------------------------------------------------
Feeling like a change in scenery would make things easier for you? Try unlocking a class! There are many "hidden" classes, such as the Archmage, Reaver, and Mindslayer. Some even have talent trees which can be unlocked as well. Each has its own unique conditions to unlock. You should try it! Just go speak to the apprentice mage (if you haven't already) and he can help you on your way.

[yufra]

Maybe add a tooltip that pops up in-game after 10K-50K turns if nothing gets unlocked, and nothing already has been unlocked? (can you really go 50K turns without unlocking Summoners?) Something like:

Code: Select all

Unlocking classes, races, and talent trees in TOME
--------------------------------------------------
Feeling like a change in scenery would make things easier for you? Try unlocking a class! There are many "hidden" classes, such as the Archmage, Reaver, and Mindslayer. Some even have talent trees which can be unlocked as well. Each has its own unique conditions to unlock. You should try it! Just go speak to the apprentice mage (if you haven't already) and he can help you on your way.

I think it would be better to have this VERY obvious, even during character generation. Or maybe as a pop-up dialog when you run the game for the first time?

[madmonk]

Better as part of Character Creation. Too easy to miss a one-off pop-up!

[lukep]

What if they showed up, but were greyed out? Mousing over them would show what you need to unlock the class/race. This would be moving very far (maybe too much) in the direction of clarity over mystery.