Racial Trees

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escargot
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Re: Racial Trees

#16 Post by escargot »

Zonk wrote:I *really* dislike the idea of that talent giving bonuses to random stats.

I think 'stat points to spend like the ones you get from level ups' is the best way of doing it - it fits with the versatility thing.

Remember that unlike the bonuses from the Skeleton/Ghoul talent, this would NOT increase the maximum/cap, which prevents 'over specialization'.
There's also the option that after you get the point spent and get out of the 'G' window (also to avoid what Grey mentioned before), you could get prompted to a window similar to the ones you get with escorts with a +2 to 3 different random stats to choose from.

But I'm also on your side Zonk, I don't know if Cornac "deserve" such randomness. They are versatile fast levelers, being able to get a broader spectrum of skills in less time/exploration, so maybe they could get some more skills to strengthen this versatility. I like what someone proposed of a +0.05 to all masteries, maybe a skill to reduce skills/items requirements, reduce fatigue (again, versatile, malleable, easy to adapt and so on). I mean, just enhance this possibility without making them utterly special.

yufra
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Re: Racial Trees

#17 Post by yufra »

Gandolfo wrote:
Zonk wrote:
Gandolfo wrote: Are you 100% certain of that? I got an escort quest going back through the trollmire in an earlier section when I had already been through that section with no escort quest, so it seems like it depends on some chance factor whether they show up.
That means you couldn't get it before because the escort couldn't spawn properly(not enough space, basically).
That seems highly unlikely to me. I can't swear that isn't the case but I have yet to see a screen where an escort starting out could not fit. In fact I have seen starts where the escort started out separated from the @ by a mob.
Please move this discussion to a new thread in the bug section.
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Re: Racial Trees

#18 Post by Final Master »

So, any other *constructive* discussion on these? With the changes in the last couple of beta's since the proposal here - what would you change, if any of these?
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marvalis
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Re: Racial Trees

#19 Post by marvalis »

I can't give you anything constructive, but I would say no to all of this.

1) There are to many skills
2) There is already not enough room on the levelup screen to show all talents.
3) There are not enough hotkeys on the first bar for all these skills.
4) several skills use a stat, like willpower. Racials should not favor one stat over another.
5) most of the suggested skills are way to strong (for example, a benefit to talent mastery of up to 0.25 in several categories)
6) There already are generic skills, they are called generic skills (like technique/combat-training that many classes use). There is no need for more generic 'racial' skills.

I can only strongly advise against this complex system. We have classes for players to choose what talents they want.
I am not gonna comment on all these talents, but for example this:
- Unlocked Potential – Gain 1 Category Point that can only be used to increase MASTERY in GENERIC [non racial] trees or unlocking new trees - Passive
I bet it needs to be:
can only be used to increase MASTERY in GENERIC [non racial] trees or unlocking new GENERIC trees.
Otherwise it would give the player a reason to wait until after unlocking this to spend category points. Besides category points can be used for both generic and class categories. Making the suggested change above would require to rework the entire system.

All I can say is no.

edge2054
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Re: Racial Trees

#20 Post by edge2054 »

marvalis wrote:I can't give you anything constructive, but I would say no to all of this.
Why say anything if it's not constructive?
1) There are to many skills
Mages have *to* many skills but a lot of people seem to enjoy the variety and the option to choose from an assortment of builds.
2) There is already not enough room on the levelup screen to show all talents.
This sounds like a UI issue. I have no trouble scrolling up and down to show all my talents but I have a mouse wheel. If you do not or don't play with the mouse maybe you could suggest a constructive solution to this rather then nixing an idea based on something that's really not all that related. Maybe a better keyboard shortcut for scrolling on that menu would help?
3) There are not enough hotkeys on the first bar for all these skills.
Somewhat of a valid point but there's constructive solutions to this such as making more of the racial generics passive or sustained so they don't take up hotkey space.
4) several skills use a stat, like willpower. Racials should not favor one stat over another.
Our current racial powers favor one stat over another and the races themselves seem to have strongly favor certain stats. So really I'm just going to disagree with this.
5) most of the suggested skills are way to strong (for example, a benefit to talent mastery of up to 0.25 in several categories)
That's valid. Why you chose not to elaborate and turn your post into something constructive I don't understand.
6) There already are generic skills, they are called generic skills (like technique/combat-training that many classes use). There is no need for more generic 'racial' skills.
There's already class skills so are you suggesting people quit proposing and coding new class skills? There's already racial trees too should skeletons and ghouls move away from the racial trees? Other people seem to like them. If you don't that's fine and it's okay to express your opinion but your presenting your opinion as fact and frankly I find that a bit annoying.

If your whole reason for hating so much on this idea (and yes your post came off as hateful) comes down to this last point and the fear that you won't have enough generic talents to spend that's a valid argument but again one that could have worked as constructive rather then contemptuous. Otherwise I really don't understand what your post is trying to get at. All I really read is 1) hate it for no good reason, 2) hate it for no good reason, 3) somewhat valid but fixable, 4) hate it for no good reason, 5) another valid point that's easily fixed, and 6) more hate without reason.

darkgod
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Re: Racial Trees

#21 Post by darkgod »

Racials trees are in svn
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Re: Racial Trees

#22 Post by Final Master »

*dies* - I'm so happy.
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marvalis
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Re: Racial Trees

#23 Post by marvalis »

edge2054 wrote:There's already class skills so are you suggesting people quit proposing and coding new class skills? There's already racial trees too should skeletons and ghouls move away from the racial trees?
I think racial skills are to complex for my taste, and i would prefer more normal general trees instead of racial general trees. This is, in my personal opinion, for the sake of class balance (when designing a class you will now have to take into account all racial skills).
I think skeletons and ghouls are a special case due to the high exp penalties. I would not consider changing them.

That is all moot now that is is being added, I just posted this to clarify.

I could have commented on each skill individual, but I was lazy, blame me. This was just the easiest way to post my opinion, and I am not trying to flame anyone.
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I'm happy for you. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to kill your idea, just a matter of personal style and preference.

edge2054
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Re: Racial Trees

#24 Post by edge2054 »

The ghoul and skeleton xp penalties are much lower now. Not sure if you're aware.

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Re: Racial Trees

#25 Post by Final Master »

Now that the racial trees are in, how are you, the players, liking them?
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