Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)

[edge2054]

On the other hand.. does the Guardian Unity cooldown feel to long? I'm okay with adjusting it. Say six turns? It needs a cooldown though as it was really crazy without one.

[ghostbuster]

It is partly true for resistances, but in terms of resilience to effects, vigilance is outstanding for TW. With it and Dim shift (and the many teleporting spells), you do not really need a wild infusion (at least in normal). (In which case, you can have an extra regen!)

Dim shift is very nice for removing effects (although accessible to both PM and TW), but not enough on its own on insane. Vigilance isn't reliable at anything other than dots like poison that you wouldn't spend a wild on anyway. Anything you want to spend a wild on (stun, confusion, sleep, sometimes freeze/daze) needs to be removed instantly, not when vigilance gets around to it.

In insane+ probably, as you can have nasty effects applied for 20+ turns. But on normal, it is useless. I have a level 45 TW without any wild inf. In case of problem, I use one of the many teleport spells (blink blade, thread walk, dim step, wormhole). Blink blade, that grants 3 teleports, is especially great. I also have a phase door rune and the serpentine cloak. And sincerely, I NEVER felt in a difficult situation because of effects, even in the prides. Except for hexes that are 20 turns long, but they are rapidly removed by vigilance.
IMHO, in terms of effects resilience, TW are one of the very best classes.

[themuffinthief]

Webs of Fate was bugged yes.

Good to know, that's a big deal.

Energy Decomposition requires a category point and apparently the description needs to be clarified. It works like an Antimagic shield with 30% hardiness. So if you take 100 damage and Energy Decomp can reduce 100 damage at the cap, you take 70 and reduce the damage by 30.

Energy Decomp currently reduces ALL damage, including physical. At level 13, with 3 points in it (my current PM level), it reduces all damage by 30%, up to 55. That means I need to take a single hit greater than 55 * 1/.3 = 183. As it scales with spellpower and dissipates every damage source seperately, those hits that arent reduced by the full 30% are going to be very rare. Also, the rest of the category it's in merits the category on it's own.

Wardens also get dogs. Don't know how they fair on Insane but they're apparently fine on nightmare. They also get Fold Warp. And other stuff.

Dogs are nice, but they don't tank the scary things like oozemancers, aoe, beams, etc. that just shoot right through them. They mostly help clog up a path while I'm running for my life to give me time to recover some cds.

I'm pretty sure I'm scrapping my TW (currently level 23), and trying a different approach, but I'll give feedback on my current run.

Current build:
Stats: Magic/Dex. I don't feel like the magic does enough, and the damage is really low without strength. I might do a str/dex build next run just to compare damage.
Blade threading: 1/1/1/1. I regret every point spent, my melee damage is useless, even with a T5 randart mace. For comparison, my T2 green dagger does almost as much damage in main hand. I'd rather shoot at point blank then melee. I do about 50% more damage with my bow (epoch's curve), and shoot faster. It was still more damage even before I got epoch's curve though.
Bow threading: 1/2/1/4. I'd like more points spent in arrow stitching, but I'm thin on points (mostly due to trying out talents that I regret). Arrow echoes is really strong, with 4 bonus shots at rank 4. Maybe too strong, IDK.
Temporal combat: 1/1/1/0. Solid tree. I plan on more points in weapon manifold, but couldn't manage it so far. Breach will eventually get picked up I think.
Temporal guardian: 5/2/0/0. I had warden's focus/vigilance specced at one point, but didn't feel it was worth spending a turn to use. If it was instant I'd definitely take it, but then it might be op. Still will probably pick up eventually, but can't spare points yet. Guardian unity definitely deserves more points.
Threaded combat: 1/2/1/1. Another regret tree, but not because it's a bad tree. If melee damage was good, this tree would be very nice, but melee being worthless right now makes this tree near worthless. Final talent still does some good, but not worth the points.
Hounds: 3/1/1/1. Took this tree at 10. Nothing special, but a very nice supplement.
Speed control: 1/1/1/0. This tree is really strong, and definitely deserves more points when I get them. Maybe should have spent more already. I don't think it's op though, I think it defines what the temporal warden should be...constantly moving and weaving between blade and bow.

Overall, I currently feel like I have 0 survivability. Most of my fights I just shoot stuff while the hounds tank, no problem. Any fight that has something that shoots over the hounds, however...I get hit once, triggering guardian, and am near dead. I can't even think about going to melee something, as I have no reliable gap closer (thread walk I can't spare points in just for teleport accuracy, and dim step is saved for retreating/debuff removal. Not to mention that my melee damage is beyond atrocious. Next run, I'll take time shield (I didn't want to spend a cat point on it with so many other fun-looking categories, but I'm struggling to survive without it).

Honestly, melee damage needs to be buffed. I do way less damage in melee then with bows, and its far riskier. The main reason for that IMO is the strength of purpose nerf, as sword/dagger should be higher damage, but dagger/dagger is currently as I don't have stat points to invest in strength so the 100% strength scaling is worse than lower base damage and 45% dex/45% str from daggers. My personal take on it, either revert the change and nerf bow damage (ratios perhaps), or buff melee damage.

[themuffinthief]

On the other hand.. does the Guardian Unity cooldown feel to long? I'm okay with adjusting it. Say six turns? It needs a cooldown though as it was really crazy without one.

I like the idea. 10 turns is basically once in a fight unless it's a unique/boss fight, and it's reduction isn't strong enough to only be up for 1 turn in a fight.

[edge2054]

Thanks for the feedback muffinthief. I don't have time for a long response right now but I had similar concerns about Strength of Purpose and partially unnerfed it a couple of days ago. I'll push a merge tonight or tomorrow morning. But the short story is that it will affect damage mod like it did before but not convert physical power.

[ghostbuster]

Honestly, melee damage needs to be buffed. I do way less damage in melee then with bows, and its far riskier. The main reason for that IMO is the strength of purpose nerf, as sword/dagger should be higher damage, but dagger/dagger is currently as I don't have stat points to invest in strength so the 100% strength scaling is worse than lower base damage and 45% dex/45% str from daggers. My personal take on it, either revert the change and nerf bow damage (ratios perhaps), or buff melee damage.

I think the class could probably deserve a tiny damage buff, but is overall well enough balanced. Honestly I fear to meet a randboss TW. Think that almost every turn, thanks to warden call, you have a double attack. If the attack strength was similar to zerkers, it would be really OP.

[edge2054]

Wardens Call is bugged FYI. My sanity check was always returning 0 so they're doing full damage

[Thasero]

Every time a projectile from Arrow Echoes is generated, it swap your weapon to the bow and triggers Warden's Call.

If you hold a bow and target Attack - as in, the regular melee attack - then cancel, you'll switch to melee weapons during targeting but won't switch back to the bow after canceling.

Thread Walk has a very sharp breakpoint at level 4, which is the level it can be used as a reliable melee closer. I can't imagine going to 5 or leaving it at 2 or 3. Suggestion: Rather than scaling teleport accuracy/range up, give it reliable accuracy but a large cooldown that decreases with points. Also, if the intention is for the melee version of Thread Walk to position you for a follow-up archery shot, then it should use the same placement algorithm as bow wardens, i.e. put you somewhere you can make the shot; currently it's a short-range escape teleport, because it launches you randomly - usually to a different room.

[IejirIsk]

edited this line, cause misread.... woops...

and, while i can understand the hatred of 1/2 point wonders, there are alot of talents that are useful. and not heard a ton of people going without hounds.

threadwalk i kinda agree with Thasero on from what i remember.

Blade shear is the only threaded combat that doesnt use weapons?

any chance of making the preferred dox go a little higher than 300? imagine flux mages might prefer a tad higher.

and just realized... cornac is stretching for master race on TW too... while precog isn't so nice anymore... that def bonus is still where its at.
and would like to unlock stasis + threaded.... hmm...

does fatigue effect paradox like it used to?

edit2: seal fate description should be a little more clear on the '33% per spin (for 35% at three spin)' maybe 'maxing at 35%' and does it count up to 6 spin, or cap at 3?
edit3: does folding's proc have a limit per turn?

[edge2054]

If you hold a bow and target Attack - as in, the regular melee attack - then cancel, you'll switch to melee weapons during targeting but won't switch back to the bow after canceling.

No idea how to fix this. I don't see why it's not working.

Gave Thread Walk cooldown scaling.

[IejirIsk]

ha. well, serves me right for taking 1/2 info... saw what the 300 dox cap was while looking for answers about fatigue. XD

edit: Does spin give scaled defense, i assume?
edit2: just realized a potential problem using crystal's astral bindings... my clones fire spells too with their bows....

[Razakai]

I agree with Guardian Unity being 6 turns. It was far too good when I played with no cooldown, but it's also the best defence TW has, especially in melee.

And strongly disagree with nerfing Gravity any further. It's powerful, but physical is less supported than many other elements and it has a comparatively short range. Lowering the coefficients any further would just make it plain bad outside of the utility.

[ghostbuster]

A couple of questions on TW and wardens.

Are wardens concerned by Blended Threads? In other words, if I use a bow talent that summons a warden and if that warden does a melee attack, will he get the %damage bonus?

Do wardens attacks trigger weapon manifold? And if they do, will it put the corresponding fold on cooldown? And if the fold is already on cooldown, will it reduce the cooldown of the other folds?

[IejirIsk]

A couple of questions on TW and wardens.
Do wardens attacks trigger weapon manifold? And if they do, will it put the corresponding fold on cooldown? And if the fold is already on cooldown, will it reduce the cooldown of the other folds?

they have their own CD's, but will work on yours too. or at least, they did.

[edge2054]

A couple of questions on TW and wardens.

Are wardens concerned by Blended Threads? In other words, if I use a bow talent that summons a warden and if that warden does a melee attack, will he get the %damage bonus?

Do wardens attacks trigger weapon manifold? And if they do, will it put the corresponding fold on cooldown? And if the fold is already on cooldown, will it reduce the cooldown of the other folds?

No on the first one. Wardens use shoot and attack, neither of which give the blended damage modifier.

Yes on the second. Specifically I reset manifold cooldown when they spawn. They use their own talent from that point and it doesn't interact with your own cooldowns.

Iejersk, weapon folding has no process limit. Fatigue does affect paradox. You can change your base by casting static history.

Razaki, I reduced the bonus damage on gravity rather than the base. Nerfed base on gravity well a bit. I think I was even handed with it.