And how do Archmages enjoy losing all their shields against the Weirdling Beast? How do Doomed fare when they lose their shadows on the first turn of battle? How about Reavers and Corrupters with no Bone Shield?
The Weirdling Beast is really not what classes should be balanced against. Not only does he have a skill found nowhere else in the game, but he's also optional.
Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
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Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
... sigh.Parcae2 wrote:The Weirdling Beast is really not what classes should be balanced against. Not only does he have a skill found nowhere else in the game, but he's also optional.
The Weirdling Beast is far from the only enemy that can strip sustains. It's just an early and guaranteed source of that particular problem.
Which means whether something is a sustain or not matters, whether or not the sustain has a cost.
Though the fact that the Weirdling Beast fight shuts down a whole bunch of the Warden's standard toolset in addition to having a whole lot of healing available is certainly notable.
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
No need to be rude, dude.... sigh.
Yes, sustains can be stripped. Abilities have counters. Archmages are at least as vulnerable to Disperse Magic (et al) as Chronomancers, but Archmages are nonetheless generally agreed to be one of the strongest classes in the game if not the strongest. What's your point?
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
My point is that if someone thinks an ability needs a buff, or a ease-of-use change, or whatever, they should say that.
Not claim that the buff or whatever isn't actually a change, and as such doesn't need any consideration.
Not claim that the buff or whatever isn't actually a change, and as such doesn't need any consideration.
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
Weapon Folding is staying a sustain. Even if it cost 0 Paradox and gave back Paradox on hit it would still be a sustain. It's about thematics and keeping it internally consistent with similar talents.
That said this thread really isn't the place for debating the finer points of talent balance. It's been done to death in another thread. I want people to freely speak their minds. I'm reading every post and value the feedback. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree and change things and it doesn't mean that I have the time or inclination to reply to every post.
Once 1.3 releases I'm sure we'll have a feedback thread. We can go back to debating things to death there. For now I'd like to keep focused and keep this thread on track.
Bugs, balance suggestions, minor and major annoyances, how awesome I am, those are all great posts to make. If I'm on the fence about something I'll ask for more opinions on it
That said this thread really isn't the place for debating the finer points of talent balance. It's been done to death in another thread. I want people to freely speak their minds. I'm reading every post and value the feedback. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree and change things and it doesn't mean that I have the time or inclination to reply to every post.
Once 1.3 releases I'm sure we'll have a feedback thread. We can go back to debating things to death there. For now I'd like to keep focused and keep this thread on track.
Bugs, balance suggestions, minor and major annoyances, how awesome I am, those are all great posts to make. If I'm on the fence about something I'll ask for more opinions on it
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
One potential balance issue I've noticed for the Paradox Mages, at least, is spell range. Right now, almost every ability has a range of 10, right from the beginning.
I focused on getting a good light range or using a Clairvoyance wand, so I could detect enemies early. In the current test character, I have a light range of about 13 - so I see an enemy, drop a Gravity Well on/in front of them, hit with grav spikes, then as they move into range, get a couple more hits with the other range 10 attack spells. Very few non-bosses get close enough to attack me. Only long-range mages and Rush users ever have a chance.
I think it would be better to shorten the range to either 6 or 7 for most attacks. With AOE that can still reach to 10, but is less open to abuse. In addition, add another Spellbinding ability to extend range. That could add an extra 3-4 range to one spell, if the player really wanted it.
Alternately, make the range scale up to 10 with Talent Level. Sphere of Destruction works that way now.
I focused on getting a good light range or using a Clairvoyance wand, so I could detect enemies early. In the current test character, I have a light range of about 13 - so I see an enemy, drop a Gravity Well on/in front of them, hit with grav spikes, then as they move into range, get a couple more hits with the other range 10 attack spells. Very few non-bosses get close enough to attack me. Only long-range mages and Rush users ever have a chance.
I think it would be better to shorten the range to either 6 or 7 for most attacks. With AOE that can still reach to 10, but is less open to abuse. In addition, add another Spellbinding ability to extend range. That could add an extra 3-4 range to one spell, if the player really wanted it.
Alternately, make the range scale up to 10 with Talent Level. Sphere of Destruction works that way now.
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
Time to get back on the testing train this weekend. Anything in particular that's been updated in your branch during the week, Edge, and which I should pay attention to?
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
I've gone back and forth on Gravity range. I think prior to getting Gravity Locus that Gravity Spike would be really difficult to use effectively with less range.
As far as weekend playtesting, PMs are two trees shy of feature complete. Stasis and Matter are being worked on so just keep that in mind. There's some minor balance stuff I haven't gotten to yet.
TWs are kind of a mess right now.
So basically playtest PMs and look for bugs on any talents that look finished. They probably feel pretty squishy right now, especially prior to level ten if you're not a Cornac. But Matter should help with that once it's finished, especially for people playing on higher difficulty levels.
Hopefully we'll have PMs finished up come Monday and have TWs finished up the Monday after that.
As far as weekend playtesting, PMs are two trees shy of feature complete. Stasis and Matter are being worked on so just keep that in mind. There's some minor balance stuff I haven't gotten to yet.
TWs are kind of a mess right now.
So basically playtest PMs and look for bugs on any talents that look finished. They probably feel pretty squishy right now, especially prior to level ten if you're not a Cornac. But Matter should help with that once it's finished, especially for people playing on higher difficulty levels.
Hopefully we'll have PMs finished up come Monday and have TWs finished up the Monday after that.
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
I'd suggest 2 radius needs a minimum range of 4 to be useful, so a range of 6 or 5+Talent Level should be safe enough through the ability to prevent self-damage with Gravity Locus.
But we'll see.
In terms of bugs, I think there's something very odd going on with the Fateweaver damage prevention. When I run Energy Decomposition, it appears to reduce damage by the correct amount. When I add Preserve Pattern, it goes does again by the correct amount. But when I add Fateweaver, suddenly I sometimes start taking MORE damage than I was with just ED and PP? Especially when I combined with Webs of Fate and Seal Fate to try to get additional 3 reductions at once - that gets really wonky. The log shows three additional reductions marked Fateweaver, but all three have the same value (instead of the steadily decreasing chain of the other %-based damage shields) and altogether add up to more damage reduced than should have been dealt in the first place.
But we'll see.
In terms of bugs, I think there's something very odd going on with the Fateweaver damage prevention. When I run Energy Decomposition, it appears to reduce damage by the correct amount. When I add Preserve Pattern, it goes does again by the correct amount. But when I add Fateweaver, suddenly I sometimes start taking MORE damage than I was with just ED and PP? Especially when I combined with Webs of Fate and Seal Fate to try to get additional 3 reductions at once - that gets really wonky. The log shows three additional reductions marked Fateweaver, but all three have the same value (instead of the steadily decreasing chain of the other %-based damage shields) and altogether add up to more damage reduced than should have been dealt in the first place.
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
Stasis is mostly done if you guys want to playtest it and offer feedback. I want to clean up Stop a bit. It's using straight spellpower to apply the effects rather than paradox spellpower. I'll probably get that fixed up a bit later today. Need to take a bit of a break right now.
I'll look into the Fateweaver interactions Toranth later today. Thanks for letting me know
I'll look into the Fateweaver interactions Toranth later today. Thanks for letting me know
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
My first test on Fatweaver/ED/Reality Smearing (Preserve Pattern) looked okay.
[PROJECTOR] starting dam 80.583114699175
[LOG] Necromancer's Soul Rot hits #fbd578#player#LAST# for #DARK_GREEN#(24 dissipated)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#(16 fatewever)#LAST#, #LIGHT_BLUE#(13 converted)#LAST#, #{bold}##DARK_GREEN#27 blight#{normal}##LAST# (27 total damage).
24 dissipated + 16 Fateweaver + 13 converted + 27 blight = 80
Here's three at once.
[PROJECTOR] starting dam 49.285053380337
[PROJECTOR] res 0 1 on dam 54.21355871837 -- This one generated with +10% blight damage from a staff
[PROJECTOR] final dam after hooks and callbacks 27.284721152924
27.28 * .67 (for Reality Smearing) = 18.27
[PROJECTOR] starting dam 52.45286335585
[PROJECTOR] final dam after hooks and callbacks 26.398594450724
26 * .67 = 17.68
[PROJECTOR] starting dam 50.551264978747
[PROJECTOR] final dam after hooks and callbacks 25.441553764027
25.44 *.67 =17.04
Game Log (It rounds in the log for the sake of brevity)
[LOG] Necromancer's Soul Rot hits #fbd578#player#LAST# for #DARK_GREEN#(16 dissipated)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#(10 fatewever)#LAST#, #LIGHT_BLUE#(9 converted)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#18 blight#LAST# (18 total damage).
[LOG] Necromancer's Soul Rot hits #fbd578#player#LAST# for #DARK_GREEN#(16 dissipated)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#(11 fatewever)#LAST#, #LIGHT_BLUE#(9 converted)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#18 blight#LAST# (18 total damage).
[LOG] Necromancer's Soul Rot hits #fbd578#player#LAST# for #DARK_GREEN#(15 dissipated)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#(10 fatewever)#LAST#, #LIGHT_BLUE#(8 converted)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#17 blight#LAST# (17 total damage).
If it still feels like an issue for you please attach the log and I'll take a look at it.
[PROJECTOR] starting dam 80.583114699175
[LOG] Necromancer's Soul Rot hits #fbd578#player#LAST# for #DARK_GREEN#(24 dissipated)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#(16 fatewever)#LAST#, #LIGHT_BLUE#(13 converted)#LAST#, #{bold}##DARK_GREEN#27 blight#{normal}##LAST# (27 total damage).
24 dissipated + 16 Fateweaver + 13 converted + 27 blight = 80
Here's three at once.
[PROJECTOR] starting dam 49.285053380337
[PROJECTOR] res 0 1 on dam 54.21355871837 -- This one generated with +10% blight damage from a staff
[PROJECTOR] final dam after hooks and callbacks 27.284721152924
27.28 * .67 (for Reality Smearing) = 18.27
[PROJECTOR] starting dam 52.45286335585
[PROJECTOR] final dam after hooks and callbacks 26.398594450724
26 * .67 = 17.68
[PROJECTOR] starting dam 50.551264978747
[PROJECTOR] final dam after hooks and callbacks 25.441553764027
25.44 *.67 =17.04
Game Log (It rounds in the log for the sake of brevity)
[LOG] Necromancer's Soul Rot hits #fbd578#player#LAST# for #DARK_GREEN#(16 dissipated)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#(10 fatewever)#LAST#, #LIGHT_BLUE#(9 converted)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#18 blight#LAST# (18 total damage).
[LOG] Necromancer's Soul Rot hits #fbd578#player#LAST# for #DARK_GREEN#(16 dissipated)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#(11 fatewever)#LAST#, #LIGHT_BLUE#(9 converted)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#18 blight#LAST# (18 total damage).
[LOG] Necromancer's Soul Rot hits #fbd578#player#LAST# for #DARK_GREEN#(15 dissipated)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#(10 fatewever)#LAST#, #LIGHT_BLUE#(8 converted)#LAST#, #DARK_GREEN#17 blight#LAST# (17 total damage).
If it still feels like an issue for you please attach the log and I'll take a look at it.
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but trying your latest branch, with the latest nightly, and ToME refuses to load for me entirely(it just hangs on the front page interminably). Grabbing your branch should be the same as testing the normal 1.3, aside from changing the URL in SourceTree, right?
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
It needs new binaries and the ones in the nightly SVN build aren't up to date.
I'll see if I can get some posted.
I'll see if I can get some posted.
Re: Playtesters needed! (1.3 Chronomancers)
edge2054 wrote:My first test on Fatweaver/ED/Reality Smearing (Preserve Pattern) looked okay.
...
If it still feels like an issue for you please attach the log and I'll take a look at it.
I'll attach the chunk of the log I'm seeing the weirdness in. It's from the middle of things, as I didn't save until I noticed something, but I can reproduce what I see regularly.
Here's the highlight:
The first time I got hit, my talents supposed prevented 8+7+7+7 damage, with 25 going to my damage shield. This charged three Fate Spins.
The next hit, they prevented 9 (ED) while 30 damage went though (fateweaver was used on a different attack that round).
The first time, it claimed to have have prevented 29 damage, and 9 the second. So the second attack should have been 20 points more damaging - but it wasn't. Since this was the same enemy hitting several times in sequence, all the attacks should have been about the same.
Here's a Rogue hitting me, with 0 spins and Webs of Fate and Seal Fate active
[LOG] #UID
0##fbd578#Nnzzz The Impossible#LAST# hits Rogue for #YELLOW#5 light#LAST# damage.[LOG] Gravity Locus hits Rogue for #aaaaaa#18 physical#LAST# damage.
[LOG] #UID
0#Rogue hits #fbd578#Nnzzz The Impossible#LAST# for #aaaaaa#(8 dissipated)#LAST#, #aaaaaa#(7 fatewever)#LAST#, #aaaaaa#(7 fatewever)#LAST#, #aaaaaa#(7 fatewever)#LAST#, #SLATE#(25 absorbed)#LAST#, #aaaaaa#0 physical#LAST#, #LIGHT_GREEN#(1 dissipated)#LAST#, #SLATE#(4 absorbed)#LAST#, #LIGHT_GREEN#0 nature#LAST# (0 total damage).Loading tile talents/spacetime_tuning.png
[LOG] Nnzzz The Impossible is no longer sealing fate.
[LOG] Nnzzz The Impossible is no longer moving along the webs of fate.
[LOG] Nnzzz The Impossible stops regenerating health quickly.
[LOG] The shield around Nnzzz The Impossible crumbles.
...
Here's the same Rogue hitting me a turn or two later:
[LOG] #UID
0#Rogue misses #fbd578#Nnzzz The Impossible#LAST#.[LOG] #UID
0#Rogue hits #fbd578#Nnzzz The Impossible#LAST# for #aaaaaa#(9 dissipated)#LAST#, #aaaaaa#30 physical#LAST#, #LIGHT_GREEN#(1 dissipated)#LAST#, #LIGHT_GREEN#4 nature#LAST# (34 total damage).[LOG] #UID
0##fbd578#Nnzzz The Impossible#LAST# hits Rogue for #YELLOW#5 light#LAST# damage.[LOG] #UID
0##fbd578#Nnzzz The Impossible#LAST# hits Bandit for #YELLOW#5 light#LAST#, #YELLOW#5 light#LAST# (11 total damage).[LOG] Gravity Locus hits Rogue for #aaaaaa#18 physical#LAST# damage.
[LOG] Gravity Locus hits Bandit for #aaaaaa#18 physical#LAST#, #aaaaaa#18 physical#LAST# (36 total damage).
[LOG] #UID
0#Bandit hits #fbd578#Nnzzz The Impossible#LAST# for #aaaaaa#(9 dissipated)#LAST#, #aaaaaa#(9 fatewever)#LAST#, #aaaaaa#30 physical#LAST#, #aaaaaa#(5 dissipated)#LAST#, #aaaaaa#18 physical#LAST# (48 total damage).[LOG]
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- Fatewever Weirdness.txt
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