Resizing Arda

[zasvid]

ToME is already very far from base angband, so I don't see the point in sticking to the 100 level main dungeon. For me it gets somewhat boring to search every level (even with always_small_levels On) of Mirkwood, Mordor, with nothing special or 3 packs of Ancient Blue Dragons in random quests in a row. Larger side dungeons also apply, however they have random cities etc. what makes them more interesting, but still

So my idea is to resign from 'main dungeon' term making all 'main dungeons' equal to 'side dungeons' and call them just 'dungeon'. Then, with implementation of winning/quest system Fang described, add more dungeons like Barad-Dur (yes, Sauron at last in his place), Minas Morgul (Nazguls cannot be destroyed truly outside it), Harad, Valinor (for Ultra Evil ending). Move some of existing dungeons to another place (Dol Guldur's entrance at the end of Mirkwood, Barad-Dur in Mordor, Heart of Earth at the Bridge of Khazad-dum (or UNDER the bridge), Minas Morgul in Cirith Ungol). Then, resize them so every dungeon would have about 10-20 levels (maybe except Angband - 30?) and, finally maybe increase the 'intensity' of dungeons - more monsters, more items, more rooms.

[Tachyon]

I like this. How about another thing: the Heart of the Earth is changed so that it has a lot of demons and wraiths, and is renamed.

[zasvid]

The name is nice. But I agree that monster pattern for it could be changed a bit. When moved to bottom of Moria monster could be more powerful, so demons, many kinds of 'wall' monsters, earth-based elemental creatures and maybe some new monster of Watcher-kind 9so to fit the words of LoTR that in the roots of the mountains dwell evil and unnamed creatures older than even Sauron.

About resizing - I think that cutting depth of every dungeon (except Small Water Cave) to two-thirds (and changing their starting levels to maintain their difficulty ratios) would be reasonable.
(ie. Angband containing levels 71-100, with Morgy on 90 or sth, Nether Realm 650-666, Void/Valinor 101-120)

[zasvid]

Hmm, I wonder whether people vote only for *more* dungeons or indeed for *more* *smaller* dungeons?

[Vagabond]

More, smaller, that's what I want, actually.

[Matte]

I think that the dungeons are good as they are.

[zasvid]

Have you ever played a roguelike with smaller dungeons? For me, that's a big downside of ToME that you must walk and walk and walk through these endless levels.

[Neil]

You can't resize Angband. What other really large dungeon is there?

[zasvid]

What other dungeons aren't large??? Small Water Cave (size:small) and Barrow Downs (size: medium), IMO. And Angband is *very* large or better *too* large.

[Tachyon]

Angband should be big. It is, after all, Morgoth's fortress, and morgoth needs to have room for hundreds of dragons, several dozen balrogs, several million orcs and trolls, a bunch of cocky, know-it-all, space-wasting liches, a few million lesser undead critters, another few million demons, and thousands of angry zephyr hounds...

By the way, has anyone considered dungeons with overlapping levels? Some dungeons should have similar difficulty.

One more suggestion: turn certain wilderness areas into dungeons. Some dungeons should take up a lot of space. Take, for example, Mirkwood - this should be one huge dungeon (with Dol Guldor near its center) until you get rid of the Necromancer.

[zasvid]

I am not convinced that Morgoth commanded numerous millions of creatures in Angband. That was over 10000 years ago and if people (few thousands living on entire planet) were crucial for Nirnaeth Arnoediad, so armies of Morgoth could only be counted in tens of thousands. And that doesn't need over 60 levels of Minas' Anor size.

[Tachyon]

Ah, but you're forgetting: dragons take up a lot of space, and powerful undead like to live - er, exist - first-class, and thus take up more space than dragons.

[Atarlost]

Zasvid, dragons and orcs need to eat. Angband is not in an area known for the prevalence of edibles. Morgoth must necessarily import his supplies from the east, and must do so by a path that remains north of all 'good' habitation. Importing massive quantities of food across the withered heath is not a secure route, so he needs to keep supplies on hand for quite some time. At a bare minimum he must keep enough supplies on hand to feed his minions for six months, and if he were wise he would keep enough to feed his minions for two or more years.

Angband is also not all living space and storage. There must be halls sufficient in size to conduct training for his orcs, and there are known to be extensive mines worked by captive elves. (refer to Gwindor in the tale of Turin) Refuse pits must take up a significant portion of the fortress given the number of servants Morgoth has, and waste treatment/mushroom farming can also be expected to eat up acreage. Beyond this you must fit smithies and armories, workshops for golom fabrication, the breeding pits where the corrupt racdes were engineered, and so forth.

[Blackdog]

Good point, Atarlost. Easy to forget, since Angband *looks* like a bunch of stone halls inhabited by killer jackals!

[Atarlost]

I was going to use the slave worked mines as a rationalization for having a town on top of Angband in my variant, but ToME addiction killed it before it really got off the ground.