How do you do it?

[Xandor Tik'Roth]

I know that guys such as Lord Dimwit and Neil have posted winners beyond count, and have even more than that. My question is, how do you do it?

I mean, how do you deal with the Undead Sorceror in the Paths of the Dead when he summons Ancient Dragons and Great Wyrms? How can you cope with Q's of all kinds?

I'm running an Ent Mindcrafter, so most of my spells are fairly useless against Q's, m's, j's, and i's, along with the vast majority of uniques.

[LogrusMage]

I know that guys such as Lord Dimwit and Neil have posted winners beyond count, and have even more than that. My question is, how do you do it?

I mean, how do you deal with the Undead Sorceror in the Paths of the Dead when he summons Ancient Dragons and Great Wyrms? How can you cope with Q's of all kinds?

I'm running an Ent Mindcrafter, so most of my spells are fairly useless against Q's, m's, j's, and i's, along with the vast majority of uniques.

liberal use of ent treegrowing, and judicious use of tree-tunneling, will take care of all those summoners and breeders, even if it summons a flyer, it won't summon one onto a tree-filled space, nor will it summon them other than right around you...

[Neil]

I almost never enter the Paths of the Dead.

I once went in there with a summoner, without knowing the special environment there. Oh boy, when I noticed hordes of undead Knights Templar and Great Storm Wyrms coming at me instead of from me, that was a shock. Barely got out alive in fact.

Quylthulgs, Nexus Quylthulgs, and Demonic Quylthulgs aren't so bad.

I love Draconic Quylthulgs and their Greater brothers. I often dance with them. The result is a huge pile of stuff in the center of the room. Late in the game finding a Greater Draconic Quylthulg is a treat.

I dislike Rotting Quylthulgs, and HATE Greater Rotting Qs, Greater Demonics, and Masters. I try to avoid them. If I have to fight them, I try to use speed, raw power, and tactics to limit their summons and maximize my ability to get in hits before they can blink. Climbing Sets and diggers help.

[Xandor Tik'Roth]

Go to the bottom of the Paths of the Dead and you'll find plenty of Greater Demonic Q's.

My problem with Tree Growing is that if something dies, where do all the items go?

[Blackdog]

Go to the bottom of the Paths of the Dead and you'll find plenty of Greater Demonic Q's.

My problem with Tree Growing is that if something dies, where do all the items go?

He wants draconic, not demonic, and items won't disappear as long as you leave a tile for them to fall on. A lot of high level monsters can't fly, so you have to leave a tile anyway.

That said, trees, while not the ultimate barrier they were in previous versions, are very useful in preventing summoning, as well as blocking line of sight.

[Xandor Tik'Roth]

Wow. I'll keep that in mind for future reference.

[Neil]

Erebor is to Dragons and Draconic Qs what the Paths of the Dead are for Undead and Rotting Qs.

It *is* Rotting and not Demonic Qs that are down there more, right?

[Lord Dimwit]

Yessir, that's right.

I fight everything. Die, evil scum! Once I get in over my head, I teleport out, grind my teeth a little, then go back for revenge. The only thing that can stop me in the later levels is a big nasty Q or skull druj on open ground. If they're in corridors I can handle them with no problem.

Know all of your enemies' attacks. Know the handful of enemies that can really hurt you and don't fight them. I, like Neil, have no problems fighting six great wyrms at once if I know that their breaths won't hurt me (but I never fight six great wyrms that summon other great wyrms at once. Things can get out of hand too easily that way).

As a player I'm utterly ruthless toward everything I fight; I kill things as quickly as possible and look for more. My flaw is that I too often try to fight things at once rather than one at a time, which is really the only way to kill things. Stupid death happens once you get overconfident and don't grant your enemies any space.

Anti-summoning tactics: just surround yourself with walls/trees/webs/glyphs if any summoners are in view. Cast a Stone Prison around them if you can, or just turn the whole area into a big rocky mess with Shake until you can creep up on the summoner. In any case, you just need to disrupt their line of sight (los) so that they can't summon things at you, then walk up next to them and... snip, snip, snip.

This is getting sort of long but... the best advice I can give people who keep trying to win and can't it to always meet the enemy on your own terms, don't get surprised by them, and be ready for them when they come.

That, and hit points. Get a lot of hit points. They're all that keep you alive.

[Neil]

I will add that Great Wyrms of Chaos do bother me at any power level. They have very nasty breath and can summon more of themselves.

[Xandor Tik'Roth]

Oh yeah, the neat glyph of warding spell. Where do you get that again? Hey, thanks for the great information, Lord Dimwit and Neil. You guys are really awesome helps. Now, if I could only figure out Alchemy...

[Blackdog]

Oh yeah, the neat glyph of warding spell. Where do you get that again?

Lay of Protection, which is one of Eru's spells, creates glyphs.

If you don't mind exploiting Runecraft, sphere + protection does an even better job.

[Xandor Tik'Roth]

Since 1) Last I heard, Runcraft was broken and 2) I don't know how to use it, I think I'll pass. Besides, I generally tend to avoid Eru anyway, just because of the whole blunt weapon thing. It's really annoying...

[Fael]

I'm running an Ent Mindcrafter, so most of my spells are fairly useless against Q's, m's, j's, and i's, along with the vast majority of uniques.

This is why I gave up on Mindcrafters, which I played almost exclusively since discovering TOME until a couple weeks ago, and started playing Sorcerors.

Based on what others have said since I made my class switch, I'm wondering if the trick I missed wasn't to be a Tulkas worshipper, develop a ridiculously powerful hand-to-hand attack, and use Project Blows as my main attack against things that resist Mindwave.

Against Qs and other summoners, you want to use your detect monsters ability to find them. Then set up a void jumpgate from outside their line of sight to one of the spaces next to them and hope you can pummel them hand-to-hand before they can do much. Liberal use of Pulvarize to keep them stunned helps, too. If they do manage to summon stuff -- espeically stuff that also resists Mindwave -- then you've got problems. A good magic device skill, a couple staves of Genocide, and a stack of Recharge scrolls is probably your best bet (my failure to follow my own advice as far as magic device skill goes may be part of the cause of my disenchangment with Mindcrafters).

I never fought the Undead Sorceror as a Mindcrafter, but I took out the Necromancer of Dol Guldor a couple times and they seem fairly similar. Dig an anti-summoning corridor, lure him into it (again, liberal use of void jumpgates helps), suck up the disenchantment attacks and take him on hand-to-hand.

Sounds like you've gotten about as far as I ever did before my current Sorceror. Good luck!

[Fael]

I almost never enter the Paths of the Dead.

I thought the Undead Sorceror was one of the possible Ring bearers. Don't you have to kill him to avoid being stuck killing Sauron over and over again looking for a Ring he doesn't have?

[Neil]

What's wrong with killing Sauron repeatedly to get the One? While he still has the ring he's guaranteed to show up at Angband 4950', unlike after the ring is destroyed, when he hides like Saddam Hussein.