Just found Ringil with a Sorc. Similar experiences?

[Ithulta]

Heh, like the title says. It doesn't seem as powerful or coveted as it is in Angband, but still seems like a pretty awesome weapon. I found some 'Thanc with another incarnation of this character, and this incarnation also found Narsil (promptly changed to Anduril) while he was burninating the trolls in Nirnaeth . I don't mind it that much though, I've already got plenty of gear that's actually useful to me. I'm not sure whether I'll mathom it. I might just like it too much and who knows, maybe I'll choose +10 speed over +100% mana for some bizarre reason. How many times has this happened to you? What's the best artifact or item that you've found that was useless for you current character?

[bigfoot]

I'm still a fairly new player, with only one win, compared to most of these people. But it seems to be famous to find Sting with a Sorceror quite often, but never with a warrior.

[Yottle]

Ringil is not that unusual. Vorpal Blade, the Long Sword of the Dawn, and Mormegil are all comparable. Haradekket is not far behind. The thancs are common. As bigfoot says, Sting is the ultimate useless sorceror find.

The equivalent warrior find is a quad immunity, +40% to life randart armor. These have big minuses to to-hit and to-damage, so they aren't useful to a melee character.

[Derakon]

Note that Ringil is completely useless to Sorcerors because, not being a magestaff, it causes your spell failure rates to increase to a minimum of 25%.

[Ithulta]

Actually, I think that's an Eru thing, not a sorcerer thing. I wielded an edged weapon with my current, Melkor-worshipping sorcerer a while back, and IIRC, it didn't have any effect on failure rates. I might not be remembering correctly, though. I'll have to check again some time.

[Yottle]

It is a sorceror thing.

[bigfoot]

The equivalent warrior find is a quad immunity, +40% to life randart armor. These have big minuses to to-hit and to-damage, so they aren't useful to a melee character.

Yep, just got dual immunity armor, with like ten resists. Annoyed me, but Trone's coat is pretty nice too.

[Kernigh]

Agrelaa was a male high-elf worshipping Manwe. He was a Loremaster with skill points to Archery, Summoning and Symbiosis. He went to Deathwatch (level 21 of the Orc Caves) and slew Grishnakh, who dropped Ringil! Agrelaa had Weaponmastery at only 02.000 (never raised), but he wielded Ringil. He liked the speed boost and the regeneration. He used Ringil to kill many weaker enemies. I think that Ringil is good for almost any adventurer.

Some other items were very good, but not good for Agrelaa. The Mathom-house took these items.

The Phial of Undeath (-5) {cursed} is an example. The ability to breathe without air would be useful in underwater levels, but no Loremaster of Archery/Summoning/Symbiosis wants the Morgothian curse. (I suppose that no character of any class wants the Morgothian curse, so this phial is useless to everyone.) This phial might be useful after removing the curse, but there is no way to remove the curse. The function remove_dg_curse() in spells2.c would remove the curse, but ToME never calls remove_dg_curse().

The The Rhino Hide Armour of Felorith (+1,+64) [8,+4](-100%) {cursed} is another example.

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g) The Rhino Hide Armour of Felorith (+1,+64) [8,+4](-100%) {cursed}
    It decreases your hit points by 100%.  It provides immunity to cold.  
    It prevents teleportation.  It fills you with the Black Breath.  It is
    heavily cursed.  It carries an ancient foul curse.  It cannot be
    harmed by acid, cold, lightning or fire.  
    You found it lying on the ground on level 13 of The Old Forest.

(+1,+64) would be good for a melee character, but is no better than (+1,+0) to a ranged character like Agrelaa. (If I recall correctly, Archery ignores all to-damage bonuses except on the shooter and the ammo.) I suppose that the Black Breath and the ancient foul curse would be bad for anyone; and because 'It decreases your hit points by 100%', I wonder if you instantly die if you wear this.

What about The Dark Sword 'Mormegil' (E:45, L:3) (6d7) (+0,+0) [-20] (+2 to speed) {curs}? Agrelaa sent this to the mathom-house. The 'antimagic field' might be bad, but the major problem is how 'It aggravates nearby creatures.' Agrelaa often has many pets from Summoning or Symbiosis, but this sword would turn the pets against Agrelaa. Mormegil also has an ancient foul curse, so I am not sure if anyone would want it. A melee character might have temptation to wield it for the high damage: 6d7 plus fire brand plus 2 extra attacks.

These weapons might be good: the Broad Sword 'Halas' (2d5) (+10,+8) (+2 attacks) and the Sickle 'Dualain'.

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u) The Broad Sword 'Halas' (2d5) (+10,+8) (+2 attacks)
    It increases your attack speed by 2.  It poisons your foes.  It
    produces chaotic effects.  It is especially deadly against orcs.  It
    cannot be harmed by acid, cold, lightning or fire.  
    You found it lying in a vault on level 13 of A lost temple.
c) The Sickle 'Dualain' (2d3) (+11,-3) (+2 attacks)
    It increases your intelligence and attack speed by 2.  It does extra
    damage from fire.  It produces chaotic effects.  It is a great bane of
    dragons.  It is especially deadly against giants.  It is a great bane
    of demons.  It is a great bane of undead.  It cannot be harmed by
    acid, cold, lightning or fire.  
    You found it in the remains of a Mummified orc on level 30 of Maze.

Agrelaa wants to avoid 'chaotic effects'. These swords might cause an earthquake! The earthquake might kill or anger the pets of Agrelaa. A character without pets might use these swords.

Trap sets and instruments can be very good...

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g) a Catapult Trap Set for Demons (+25,+16) [+13] (+1)
    It is well-hidden. It can only be set off by demons.  It fires
    missiles excessively fast.  It cannot be harmed by acid.  It cannot be
    harmed by fire.  
    You found it lying on the ground on level 30 of Heart of the Earth.
h) a Bolt Trap Set for Dragons (+31,+37) [+17] (+4)
    It is well-hidden. It can only be set off by dragons.  It fires
    missiles excessively fast.  It cannot be harmed by acid.  It cannot be
    harmed by fire.  
t) a Drum of the Eldar (+1)
    It increases your strength and charisma by 1.  It provides resistance 
    to acid and poison.  It allows you to see invisible monsters.  It
    cannot be harmed by acid, cold, lightning or fire.  
    You found it lying on the ground on level 21 of The Old Forest.
u) a Harp of the Eldar (+2)
    It increases your charisma by 2.  It provides resistance to acid and 
    chaos.  It allows you to see invisible monsters.  It cannot be harmed
    by acid, cold, lightning or fire.  
    You found it lying on the ground on level 30 of Heart of the Earth.

...but Agrelaa never learned to set traps, or to sing songs! My new character Nelim can set traps, but he will never have these two trap sets, and my future Bard would never have these two instruments.

Finally, I present the Ring Mail 'Earnos' (-44,-43) [12,+7](40%).

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v) The Ring Mail 'Earnos' (-44,-43) [12,+7](40%)
    It increases your hit points by 40%.  It provides immunity to fire and 
    cold.  It provides resistance to electricity, poison, nexus and 
    disenchantment.  It cannot be harmed by acid, cold, lightning or fire.
    
    You found it lying on the ground on level 20 of Mirkwood.

Two immunities and a boost to hit points in one armor! Agrelaa cannot accept -44 to accuracy, but a mage with Manathrust or Thaumaturgy might have worn this mail.

[Ithulta]

It is a sorceror thing.

Seems like there's a problem with my installation, or something, then. I still have a fail rate of 0% when I wield a war hammer, a light war axe, etc.

[Kernigh]

Note that Ringil is completely useless to Sorcerors because, not being a magestaff, it causes your spell failure rates to increase to a minimum of 25%.

Actually, I think that's an Eru thing, not a sorcerer thing.

I am looking around the source code. This penalty to spell failure rates is only for Sorcerers who worship Eru. If you know Sorcery, then Eru hates Ringil!

The only penalties for a Sorcerer who wields a weapon, other than a mage staff, are

• a severe to-hit and to-damage penalty, and
• the 'icky weapon' flag.

The code in src/xtra1.c applies each penalty to each wielded weapon:

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		/* Sorcerer can't wield a weapon unless it's a mage staff */
		if (get_skill(SKILL_SORCERY))
		{
			int malus = get_skill_scale(SKILL_SORCERY, 100);

			if ((o_ptr->tval != TV_MSTAFF) && (o_ptr->k_idx))
			{
				/* Reduce the real bonuses */
				p_ptr->to_h -= malus;
				p_ptr->to_d -= malus;

				/* Reduce the mental bonuses */
				p_ptr->dis_to_h -= malus;
				p_ptr->dis_to_d -= malus;

				/* Icky weapon */
				p_ptr->icky_wield = TRUE;
			}
			else
			{
				/* Reduce the real bonuses */
				p_ptr->to_h -= malus / 10;
				p_ptr->to_d -= malus / 10;

				/* Reduce the mental bonuses */
				p_ptr->dis_to_h -= malus / 10;
				p_ptr->dis_to_d -= malus / 10;
			}
		}

For example, a character has Sorcery skill at 20.000, and the weapons are not mage staves. This character, wielding one weapon, would have a (-40,-40) penalty. This character, wielding two weapons (perhaps through extra arms), would have a (-80,-80) penalty. This character can wield Ringil but might never hit monsters with Ringil.

This character, wielding a mage staff, would have only a (-4,-4) penalty, and might overcome the penalty by enchanting the mage staff, or using berserk tactics; so this character might hit monsters with the mage staff.

The spell failure rate is under control of spell_chance() in lib/core/s_aux.lua, which calls lua_spell_chance() in src/lua_bind.c to apply penalties and bonuses.

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s32b lua_spell_chance(s32b chance, int level, int skill_level, int mana, int cur_mana, int stat)
{
	int minfail;
	/* Reduce failure rate by "effective" level adjustment */
	chance -= 3 * (level - 1);

	/* Reduce failure rate by INT/WIS adjustment */
	chance -= 3 * (adj_mag_stat[p_ptr->stat_ind[stat]] - 1);

	/* Not enough mana to cast */
	if (chance < 0) chance = 0;
	if (mana > cur_mana)
	{
		chance += 15 * (mana - cur_mana);
	}

	/* Extract the minimum failure rate */
	minfail = adj_mag_fail[p_ptr->stat_ind[stat]];

	/*
	        * Non mage characters never get too good
	 */
	if (!(has_ability(AB_PERFECT_CASTING)))
	{
		if (minfail < 5) minfail = 5;
	}

	/* Hack -- Priest prayer penalty for "edged" weapons  -DGK */
	if ((forbid_non_blessed()) && (p_ptr->icky_wield)) chance += 25;

	/* Minimum failure rate */
	if (chance < minfail) chance = minfail;

	/* Stunning makes spells harder */
	if (p_ptr->stun > 50) chance += 25;
	else if (p_ptr->stun) chance += 15;

	/* Always a 5 percent chance of working */
	if (chance > 95) chance = 95;

	/* Return the chance */
	return (chance);
}

I see the penalty for Eru worshippers, of mention by Ithulta. The predicate forbid_non_blessed() tests if you worship Eru. The penalty for worshipping Eru with the 'icky weapon' flag is to add 25% chance of spell failure.

The normal way to get the 'icky weapon' flag is to worship Eru and wield a non-blessed axe, sword or polearm. The other way to get the 'icky weapon' flag is to be a Sorcerer and wield any weapon other than a mage staff. src/xtra1.c sets the flag.

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		/* Priest weapon penalty for non-blessed edged weapons */
		if (((forbid_non_blessed()) && (!p_ptr->bless_blade) &&
		                ((o_ptr->tval == TV_AXE) || (o_ptr->tval == TV_SWORD) || (o_ptr->tval == TV_POLEARM))) && (o_ptr->k_idx))
		{
			...
			/* Icky weapon */
			p_ptr->icky_wield = TRUE;
		}

		/* Sorcerer can't wield a weapon unless it's a mage staff */
		if (get_skill(SKILL_SORCERY))
		{
			int malus = get_skill_scale(SKILL_SORCERY, 100);

			if ((o_ptr->tval != TV_MSTAFF) && (o_ptr->k_idx))
			{
				...
				/* Icky weapon */
				p_ptr->icky_wield = TRUE;
			}
			else ...
		}

When you wield an icky weapon, the game gives the message, You do not feel comfortable with your weapon. Any Eru worshipper or Sorcerer can know if it has the 'icky weapon' flag.

The 'icky weapon' flag also adds 25% chance of spell failure, but only if you worship Eru, because the predicate forbid_non_blessed() tests if you worship Eru.

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	/* Hack -- Priest prayer penalty for "edged" weapons  -DGK */
	if ((forbid_non_blessed()) && (p_ptr->icky_wield)) chance += 25;

This situation is strange. We have Eru-icky weapons (all non-blessed axes, swords and polearms) and we have Sorcerer-icky weapons (all weapons except mage staves). If this 25% penalty is for Sorcerers, then this ought to be for Sorcerer-icky weapons; or if this 25% penalty is for Eru worshippers, then this ought to be for Eru-icky weapons; but in ToME, this 'ought to' is 'not to'.

Instead, this 25% penalty applies to Eru worshippers with Eru-icky weapons, and also to Sorcerers with Sorcerer-icky weapons who worship Eru. The flag p_ptr->icky_wield can indicate an Eru-icky weapon (if you worship Eru) or a Sorcerer-icky weapon (if you know Sorcery), but fails to distinguish the two icky types. The predicate forbid_non_blessed() separates the Eru worshippers from most Sorcerers, but groups the Sorcerers who worship Eru with the other Eru worshippers. Now the Sorcerers who worship Eru can get the 25% penalty with a Sorcerer-icky weapon instead of an Eru-icky weapon. Eru hates Eru-icky weapons, but Eru now also hates Sorcerer-icky weapons if you know Sorcery. I wonder if this counts as a bug!

Ringil is a blessed sword, but is not a mage staff. So Ringil is Sorcerer-icky, but is not Eru-icky.

• A Priest of Eru wields Ringil. There is no penalty, because Ringil is blessed. Minimum spell failure rate is 0%.
• A Sorcerer worshipping Melkor wields Ringil. There is a severe to-hit and to-dam penalty, because Ringil is Sorcerer-icky; but there is no penalty to spell failure rates, because the god is not Eru. Minimum spell failure rate is 0%.
• A Sorcerer worshipping Eru wields Ringil. There are penalties. Minimum spell failure rate is 25%.

So Derakon and Ithulta are both correct: the 'thing' about the addition of 25% chance of spell failure applies to Sorcerers who worship Eru, but not other Sorcerers, nor other Eru worshippers.