ever-filled wallet

[The Archmage]

So you should really start thinking about using a backup.

[Blackdog]

So you should really start thinking about using a backup.

If you want to cheat, there's a whole menu for that. No need to go mucking around with savefiles and such.

[The Archmage]

But after mucking with savefiles the savefile is still uncheated, as it is not after using the cheat menu. As i said before, using backups is a grey-zone.
Anyway, is it that bad using them?

[Blackdog]

But after mucking with savefiles the savefile is still uncheated, as it is not after using the cheat menu. As i said before, using backups is a grey-zone.
Anyway, is it that bad using them?

Just because you've fooled the game doesn't mean you haven't cheated.

[The Archmage]

OK. Then I'm a cheater. I can deal with it.

[Vagabond]

I used to cheat, but found it "no fun" and stopped. Since then my best char was a lvl 40 alc (died on the xth. level of the path of dead by the hands of the blarog captain). By the way, I suck too, so I guess you can win w/o cheating.
I advise everybody to try it. Loosing a character because you forgot to change to slug-like moving before disarming a trap, and starting again with an other is quite a lasting experience.

[fearoffours]

from the Angband FAQ: (Not necessarily the last word, but certainly, as far as I'm concerned, an accurate well-written document with a certain authority)

Almost everyone uses backup savefiles at the start, but as soon as your players stop dying with great frequency, you should probably stop using them. Your play experience will become more rewarding as a result. You certainly do not have to stop using backups, many players never do. As long as you enjoy the game, who cares? However, when posting winner posts to the newsgroup, you should note if you used backup savefiles.

As long as chracter dumps are flagged by the player as having used backup savefiles, I don't care, but to pass it off as a legitimate win/acheivement I would find deceitful at least.

[Neil]

The way you cheat death and get your savefile marked is to turn on the cheat death option.

That's why THERE'S NO NEED TO SAVESCUM.

[Wastrel]

I found the Cheat Death option to be quite handy when learning the game. But you can still end up in the dark with no light fuel, in a death fate level with no hope of surviving ever, etc... But once you got the basics down its not particularly exciting to play that way.

Backup files, on the other hand, are my answer to game crashes, mistyping, and design issues. The game still crashes on me occassionally, it seemed to do it frequently when I first started playing (whatever version was out last January). It crashed on me recently and I lost about 6 or 7 completed beastmaster quests. There are also places in the game where I happen to have a difference of opinion with the creators of the game. The staff of wishing comes to mind, but I've discussed that in another thread. Finally, I'm unwilling to let a character remain dead, because my finger hit the wrong key.

[Atarlost]

Wastrel, you will never be a member of Neil's elite circle. This says more about Neil than it does about you.

[Lord Dimwit]

I found the Cheat Death option to be quite handy when learning the game. But you can still end up in the dark with no light fuel, in a death fate level with no hope of surviving ever, etc...

Wait a minute. Doesn't Cheat Death return you to the town level when it kicks in? With full HP/MP? I'm not really sure; I don't think I've ever actually used it before. If you're a brainless initiate doing things like killing Uruks with Stinking Cloud and fighting Scatha the Worm without cold resistance (both things that I did when I was just learning Angband, many many years ago), then you can feel free to scum or save or whatever.

But if you're savefile scumming in order to improve your gameplay, or to see how far you would have gotten if you had had one extra chance (or two, or three, or thirty), then you're a worthless nematode. The only way to get better is to fail, repeatedly and flagrantly, until you finally devise ways to avoid failure.

[Atarlost]

What save scumming does is let you fail repeatedly without having to redo all the boring stuff at the beginning. If you try everything (by savescumming) you'll eventualy either figure out what to do when your next charachter winds up in such a situation, or you'll figure out that such a situation is fundamentally untennable, and avoid it next time.

One major advantage of save scumming over the cheat death option is that if you never wind up using that backup savefile (except for program crashes) you have a legitimate win (or death, if you decide to stay dead)

I would actually like to see cheat death not mark your savefile (unless it activates, in which case you enter wizard mode which should still mark your savefile)

[Wastrel]

So that I don't give a totally wrong impression, let me just add that I don't make/use backup files consistently or frequently. And most of the time when a character dies they stay dead.

And sometimes (like just now) so my nephew could fool around with the character while I was doing something else.

---

Regarding the Cheat Death option, I don't remember it starting me over in town. But its been months since I used it and I don't remember what it does.

[Neil]

Wastrel, you will never be a member of Neil's elite circle. This says more about Neil than it does about you.

I BANISH YOU FROM THE CIRCLES OF ARDA, THE WORLD THAT IS, INTO THE DEEPEST REACHES OF THE VOID!

NOT ONE PHOTON OF THE LIGHT OF THE FLAME IMPERISHABLE SHALL EVER SHINE UPON YOU!

[Wastrel]

I BANISH YOU FROM THE CIRCLES OF ARDA, THE WORLD THAT IS, INTO THE DEEPEST REACHES OF THE VOID!

NOT ONE PHOTON OF THE LIGHT OF THE FLAME IMPERISHABLE SHALL EVER SHINE UPON YOU!

I humbly submit to the banishment. A %!!@* Oriental Vampire just turned me into a vampire anyway, The light from Anar the Fire golden should never touch a corrupted soul like me. But on the way to the void, I think I'll swing by Angband and send Morgoth to the void ahead of me.