Skill point quandry

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LCC · #1 Post by **LCC** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:54 am

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=9340
is my character today, a level 32 Thunder lord Mind crafter. I have 108 points left to spend, plus several FF quests likely. It is obvious that I should max out Mind craft to 50 - 17 points. I should also get extra max blows 2 and spread blows for 12 more points. Max out magic to 50 is 19 points. That leaves 60 points for Weapon mastery, Prayer, Spirituality, magic device, and symbiosis. Could someone PLEASE advise me on the wisest use of those 60 points??? I have a cloak which permits breathing without air, so I may continue the game into the void after I destroy the one ring if (of course) I do not die sooner...

#2 Post by **Yottle** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:19 pm

The issue is going to be dealing out sufficient damage against high level monsters. Since you are going with Tulkas-warrior type Mindcrafter I would max out Prayer and Weaponmastery. When you get to Angband you are going to need much higher to-hit and to-damage. You probably ought to increase Spirituality to increase your saving throw.

There are two mindcrafters on the ladder that beat Melkor. Both of them used Thaumaturgy as a companion skill to Mindcraft. Thaumaturgy gives you (if you are lucky) a create walls skill that is invaluable in the Void, blast destruction which eliminates everything around you (also invaluable in the Void), and some unresistable high-level damage spells. You probably don't want to max out Thaumaturgy, but it might be worthwhile to put a few points in to see if you can get create walls or destruction.

Another way to go is to up Symbiosis (or Summoning) and Monster-Lore so that you can generate a horde of pets to clear things out for you. I personally find this boring, but it is effective. All of the early successful Void divers used this strategy.

I almost never put points into Magic Device. At high levels wands and staves are useless because they get drained, and rods and artifacts are not reliable enough to use in emergency situations. If it takes 20 turns to activate something in a non-emergency I just macro it and hold the key down.

Mimicry at level 35 gives you three extra equipment slots. It is cool to be able to wield Mormegil, Harradekket, Thorin, Gilgalad, Fingolfin, and Cambeleg all at the same time. You can probably get there if FF cooperates and you don't get killed because you are hording points.

LCC · #3 Post by **LCC** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:50 pm

Thanks for the advice! I have been looking at the spoilers and am leaning toward the following allocation of 108 points :
1) Symbiosis to 25 for share major powers - 8 points.
2) Mind craft to 50 - 17 points.
3) Magic to 50 - 19 points
4) Spread blows - 5 points.
5) Extra max blows #2 - 7 points.
6) Prayer to 50 - 25 points.
7) Last 27 points into spirituality to 37+.

I was also looking over the summoning spoilers and decided that I want a true totem for a Cyclops from the wilderness map. Where would be a good place to find a Cyclops? Also, what other totems should I seek?

I have made use of my symbiosis skill only to get a level 28 death sword from the lost temple. Later on I will (of course) get a high level Quylthulg. What other non moving pets are useful for symbiosis? Also I would like to know if I should routinely carry scrolls of summon unmoving pet late in the game so that I can get chain summoning pets. If the answer is YES then I will continue to buy every fireproof scroll of summon that I can get...

I also noticed that some winners took symbiosis to 33+. What does that add to the abilities?

Sir Crashalot · #4 Post by **Sir Crashalot** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:28 pm

The wilderness area around the entrance to Angband is a good place to look for a Cyclops.

#5 Post by **Yottle** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:06 am

The symbiotic powers are listed in the help. Level 25 gets you major powers. Level 30 gets you Summon Never-moving.

The best symbiont (at least in terms of hit points) is a skull druj. They are easy to get if you teleport to the bottom of the Paths of the Dead with a stack of ? of Summon Never-moving Pet. Greater Qs are good also. Once you get to the bottom of Angband you will want to replace your friend with a leveled one. You will also want to do this in the Nether Realm. A level 150 druj or Q has insane hp.

LCC · #6 Post by **LCC** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:24 am

Thanks for the advice!

http://tome.dreamer.hu/monster_show.php?id=750
I do not like the look of the Skull Druj magic list. While offensive magic and AC is great, the TRAPS flag makes me leery. If my symbiont clutters up the level by creating traps, it might seriously inconvenience me. Have you actually used one for a while, and if so, were traps a problem?

#7 Post by **Yottle** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:41 pm

LCC wrote:Thanks for the advice!

http://tome.dreamer.hu/monster_show.php?id=750
I do not like the look of the Skull Druj magic list. While offensive magic and AC is great, the TRAPS flag makes me leery. If my symbiont clutters up the level by creating traps, it might seriously inconvenience me. Have you actually used one for a while, and if so, were traps a problem?

I have used druj as symbionts for very long times. There aren't any problems. ymbionts don't cast spells on their own. Ones with manual attacks (death swords, for example) do these on their own.

You can use a symbiont's spells if you have high enough Symbiosis skill. I am pretty sure that create traps is not one of the options for a skull druj symbiont- as you say, it would not be very useful.

A druj pet or companion would be another matter entirely. I would never want one of those. The trap creation would be the least of my worries- the ball spells would much worse.

overtrix · #8 Post by **overtrix** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:18 pm

If you have plenty speed to ever nab it before turning hostile (and haven't killed it yet ?) is possible to get the unique Q as a symbiont, which has 5000 HP - need to be at sufficient depth to summon it, because attempts at charming the real deal will be fruitless. I'm pretty sure it'll come under the heading of "Naughty Exploits" but to have it in your pocket makes mopping up the ringwraiths simpler when it comes to that time. There's also the intriguing situation that it will still be generated normally - maybe this also means it can be summoned again, in which case could keep a spare at home !

Think Improv can be nabbed in this way too if you're playing with that chap available - but that might just be faulty memory from some lengthy and doomed struggle to do so, not sure.

I don't usually bother with (okay, remember about) the healing-and-lifesharing business unless caught in a situation which is probably terminal anyway, but increasing your symbiosis skill means the creature more often takes your damage for you - and it's good fun to experiment with Force Symbiosis, doing so with really serious pets can reduce dungeon clutter fairly efficently

LCC · #9 Post by **LCC** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:40 pm

Thanks for the advice!
I will make getting a skull druj a priority. Now THAT raises another question. If I use the power of the symbiont to summon, does the summoned monster become a free pet or is it a drain on my mana? Also is there a mana limit for the symbiont or are all spells cast free, or in the worst case does it draw down MY mana? All I have used so far is a spell less death sword, with which I am well pleased.

#10 Post by **Yottle** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:42 pm

You are supposed to be able to get the unique non-movers as symbionts. As you say, you have to be fast.

Shoob · #11 Post by **Shoob** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:03 pm

summoned monsters become pets, they dont drain your mana. they can become hostile if aggravated though. Spells cast do drain your mana (either 10 or 30 depending on which one you use)

Lord Estraven · #12 Post by **Lord Estraven** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:24 pm

Regarding wall creation, Tulkas provides that courtesy of Earth magic.

LCC · #13 Post by **LCC** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:10 am

Thanks for the information!

I got a token (on the surface map near Angband) for a storm giant when I was level 32, but it was hostile when summoned. Does the level 0 summons include higher level monsters found on the surface, such as storm giants and cyclops?

Is carrying a dark sword a mistake unless it is heavily negative? The spoilers seem to indicate that only heavily negative dark swords produce significant anti-magic fields when wielded...

overtrix · #14 Post by **overtrix** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:20 am

Yesss - at least, until you try to clobber something with it

I think people do the dark sword thing when they either have other ways of inflicting torment, or are playing possessors in Hindu Deity Mode - but such folk seem to have raised it to a fine art and will hopefully tell you the whole story.

elcugo · #15 Post by **elcugo** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:25 am

The sum of +to attack, +to hit, AC and PVAL (stat bonus) must be negative so that the Dark sword can have any effect. If it's possitive a Dark Sword is just an ordinary sword.