Do You Cheat?

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#16 Post by **Xandor Tik'Roth** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:31 pm

Every once in a while I cheat death by forcing ToME to quit before it gets to the grave screen. I know, it's wrong, but I'm going places that I've never been before and I'm doing really well. I haven't made a habit out of it, now I'm stocking up on Potions of Healing and *Healing*.

Serin · #17 Post by **Serin** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:19 pm

is there an echo in here?....

#18 Post by **Xandor Tik'Roth** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:00 pm

Oops, sorry.

sochin · #19 Post by **sochin** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:17 pm

Started TOME just some weeks ago and the learning curve would probably have been quite slow if I hadn't used backup saves. Did it quite a few times with my possessor if certain uniques refused to drop their corpse (yeah it's really heavy cheating, I know). I was afraid it could become a nasty habit but luckily it didn't. Just now my last char that had cheated death a few times died* with no recent backup and I intend to keep all my next ones pure. I'm sure winning will feel much better once I can actually do it.

*It's all Elliot's fault

. Read his yeek bard's diary where he took out Gondolin dragons and Eöl and reasoned that if his _yeek_ can do it then surely my mighty dark elf sorceror would have no trouble. Turned out he didn't, all the dragons died in 1 manathrust and Eöl could take just a few also. Feeling very confident I then proceeded to the tainted water quest and thought it would be a good idea to spam nox cloud at them until they die. And then something killed me from almost full hps (140 *cough*).

Guest · #20 Post by **Guest** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:06 pm

Ooh, sorry to cause trouble. I dunno how well Noxious Cloud would work on the tainted water monsters. They're almost all poison resistant and if it doesn't have a LOT of range, you might get into the LOS of a bunch of them and, well, that's bad. Wow, I don't think anything in that quest has ever done 140 hp in one shot to me so that's pretty bad luck.

The best way to handle that quest IMHO, is, starting early on, to keep your eyes open for the best launcher you can find (bow is ideal, but crossbow is fine, but don't bother with a sling), and either buy it or just hang onto it for later. Then, after you finish the Loth house quest, start stockpiling arrows. Try to build up at least 400-500 (see, sling bullets would be too heavy). Then if you've got the money, haul them to Gondolin or Minas Anor and get them enchanted (its the same price no matter how many there are) as high as you can. Then grab your bow and head to the river. Creep up until you can see exactly one monster and shoot it until it dies. Then creep up until you see one more, and shoot it until it dies. Then creep up until... well, you get the idea. Its slow, but quite safe.

Regarding cheating, its funny, but I did the 'try to quit before the death scene' a few times, especially with my very first ToME character. A rohanknight unbeliever. He totally spoiled me by making it to level 29. At level 16 or so and armed with essentially non-magic armor, a +0,+0 darksword, Smeagol's ring, and a few (less than 5) potions of CCW and speed he took on the Gondolin House quest and then Eol in quick succession, beating them both (he was level 26 or so when he finished). As a result, I didn't get used to the idea that characters die a lot, so he kept getting in over his head, and I wasn't willing to let him go. Finally, at level 29 (though with much better equipment than before) he went after the Gondolin trolls and was totally overwhelmed.

I finally figured out the early game with Spanky, the high elven ranger who made it to level 33 and died, also to the Gondolin Trolls, though it was because he tried to Genocide them all. Oops. However, once that character died, I realized that, 1) I could consistently get characters to the middle part of the game, and 2) there was a lot more of the game to go. It became clear that saving 25th or 30th level characters was a waste of time because they've got a LONG way to go, and I could just make another one.

At that point I stopped trying to save characters. At low levels there just wasn't any point (and the threshhold for low level has crept up and up over time), and at high levels, the character has been around for a while and has (to me) developed a personality and story. Trying to bring them back from the dead just seems wrong. Plus, once a character makes 35th or 40th level it feels like an accomplishment and I wouldn't want to taint that.

Guest · #21 Post by **Guest** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:55 pm

Oh, sorry. That was from Elliott, as is this. I also forgot that I had to kill the game and restart from a saved game thanks to the mage staff bug with the flame imperishable It was cheating, but it was bug related, so I was willing to give myself a pass on it.

sochin · #22 Post by **sochin** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:40 pm

I suppose I could have manathrusted them to death one by one also but what killed me there was just pure overconfidence and impatience. Started a death mold sorc now with small levels and ironman rooms, these tainted water mobs are going to pay.

Serin · #23 Post by **Serin** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:03 pm

I just love random tangents that help us with quests!

Maylith · #24 Post by **Maylith** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:14 pm

Except that I'm wondering about the range on Manathrust vs. Bows.... in that quest, you want to be as far away as possible, and kill the aggravators first.

Hunter · #25 Post by **Hunter** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:52 pm

Maylith wrote:Except that I'm wondering about the range on Manathrust vs. Bows.... in that quest, you want to be as far away as possible, and kill the aggravators first.

I don't know about the range differences (I suppose it'd be simple enough to look up. My current level 43 sorcerer weilding the Arkenstone -- as far as I can tell, that's my only light source -- can hit things with manthrust at 19 paces or so. Using manathrust is actually quite effective on said quest, as I've confirmed quite a few times. Just exhibit the same patient "one step at a time" strategy. A few monsters will come after you, like spectators and flamers (summoned?) but you just back up a pace and wallop them until dead. Plus, manathrust is a more reliable attack form than bows from a consistently-hitting perspective.

I wonder whether tidal wave would work...never tried that on that quest.

Arioch_Arioch · #26 Post by **Arioch_Arioch** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:16 pm

Actually, I find a wand of noxious cloud works wonders on the creatures that summon/aggravate/cast bolts/mindblank. The only creatures that are significantly resistant are the ones you can walk around and melee at your leisure once the breeders and such are gone. One thing that may help for people new to clouding the horde is getting the hang of what your targetable range actually is as opposed to what shows on your screen. I've never had a problem with melee characters using wands in this quest unless I had a character who rushed in before he could even take a single stray hit of whatever, though I can't imagine a character who could survive the araneas not being able to take a single shot from a mimic.

Serin · #27 Post by **Serin** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:44 pm

I didn't want to post a completely new topic but while we are on the subject (kind of). does a sorcerers spell power have anything to do with the actual power of the spell? I mean, should I put skill points into spell-power or just sorcery and magic device and magic? thanx

Hunter · #28 Post by **Hunter** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:54 am

Serin wrote:I didn't want to post a completely new topic but while we are on the subject (kind of). does a sorcerers spell power have anything to do with the actual power of the spell? I mean, should I put skill points into spell-power or just sorcery and magic device and magic? thanx

For a sorcerer, you should max out Magic -- for the mana, at the very least -- Spellpower and Sorcery. I usually pour more into the latter two first because they automatically raise the first one a little as they go up. Leftovers go into Magic, or possibly a FF skill like Symbiosis. Trust me, you won't regret maxxing out all three.

Some people swear by Magic Device, so that's probably a good one. Personally, I use magic devices less frequently than most people, especially if I'm running a sorcerer who can duplicate most of the most commonly-used device powers (ID, WoR, Vision, et cetera) and whose attack spells at the higher levels put most magic devices to shame.

Guest · #29 Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:07 am

Serin wrote:does a sorcerers spell power have anything to do with the actual power of the spell?

Yes. Add spell power to the level of the spell you get from the school (or magic device).

Mitharheru · #30 Post by **Mitharheru** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:08 pm

Anonymous wrote:
Serin wrote:does a sorcerers spell power have anything to do with the actual power of the spell?
Yes. Add spell power to the level of the spell you get from the school (or magic device).

In fact, (Spell-power)@20 is added to the level of any applicable spell ... See the Skill Spoiler Page at http://www.killerbunnies.org/angband/skill-220.html

ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Do You Cheat?

Do You Cheat?

spell power

Re: spell power