Hardest Variant?
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Groothewanderer
- Archmage
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:14 pm
- Location: Southeast Michigan
I have only played Moria, Angband and ToMe and the hardest, by far was Moria, followed closely by Angband and then ToMe. I know Moria wasn't one of the possible selections (since it is a predecessor, not a variant of Angband), but I just had to mention it since it is still the king in being almost un-beatable. I haven't played all those other variants but have been thinking about giving one of the others a try.
"All right you slobbering, savage, mindless creature - prepare to meet your equal!" - Groo
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LordBucket
- Uruivellas
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:08 am
- Location: Orange County, Ca
In CthangBand, my solution for the hit point problem was to very early on go into one of the mid range dungeons...one that started on level 30, for instance, then summon or find some low level breeders and simply stand there for several thousand turns letting them beat on me. I don't know if that would work with SangBand too.
Agreed on Moria...I really got tired of losing maximum level charcaters with resistance to everything to off screen gas breath attacks.
I really like the degree of control ToME gives. Doing dungeon levels over and over for days simply hoping to get lucky and find equipment with the necesary resistances wasn't fun.
Agreed on Moria...I really got tired of losing maximum level charcaters with resistance to everything to off screen gas breath attacks.
I really like the degree of control ToME gives. Doing dungeon levels over and over for days simply hoping to get lucky and find equipment with the necesary resistances wasn't fun.
I voted for Hengband. It has a nasty randomized speed system designed to occasionally give monsters double turns against you and a lot of Z-like twinkiness. Zangband's wilderness is murderous but the dungeons don't seem quite as bad. Sangband is just plain hard, I think noticeably more so than Vanilla Angband, which I haven't played in a long while. I have played none of these variants particularly far so I can't give a really informed opinion. (My character in Sangband just found her first ego item, which was useless to her skill set. Well, at least her continous money troubles should be over for a while.)
sCthangband is another contender for the hardest variant. It is really cool, but getting important skills (like toughness!) up can be hard, particularly with the item-finding requirement to prevent scumming.
In the Sangband I played the hit points came with power level uppings. That meant I could just gain experience and when I had allocated enough into skills my hitpoints would go up.
ToME is clearly the easiest variant I have played. Steamband as new and relatively unbalanced can be either really easy or really hard, depending on the character and the stage of the game. It is quick and fun to play though, and I won it.
sCthangband is another contender for the hardest variant. It is really cool, but getting important skills (like toughness!) up can be hard, particularly with the item-finding requirement to prevent scumming.
In the Sangband I played the hit points came with power level uppings. That meant I could just gain experience and when I had allocated enough into skills my hitpoints would go up.
ToME is clearly the easiest variant I have played. Steamband as new and relatively unbalanced can be either really easy or really hard, depending on the character and the stage of the game. It is quick and fun to play though, and I won it.
Zothiqband -- still an Angband variant.
I decided a while ago ToME's modules were better than vanilla ToME, and therefore my winners are all from modules. They consists of two sorcerors, (alright, the other WAS a Lygrog, but I got her an ultimate winner and she wasn't overpowered for that) and a swordmaster. I also had a demonologist who died on the top of Mount Doom.
ToME IS easy compared to others, but I'm not saying that's a bad thing. The difference to say Theme isn't that big except for some late-game items and demon player races.
ToME IS easy compared to others, but I'm not saying that's a bad thing. The difference to say Theme isn't that big except for some late-game items and demon player races.
Zothiqband -- still an Angband variant.
I played (and won) Theme before they got lygrogs... Some (non-sorcerous) ego jewelry was involved but my getting lucky with an early scroll of artifact creation and later more than one vampiric ego sword was what really made the character. The demonologist who died on Mount Doom was a pretty non-munchinish type overall whose main Theme-perk was Coimir's different powers from its original version. The Rohirric ring was basically just a speed ring to her since critical hits from rings are very nearly useless in most cases.
But even in the early game which is the only part I've played widely (I get bored) there is no comparison. ToME and the modules based on it are by far the easiest. Steamband is the only one that can approach the same feeling in some cases.
If you think large kobolds are suddenly murderous and Lagduf the Snaga a nearly-unstoppable force of death, even though you tried to make a strong character, you are probably playing a hard variant.
By the way, my favorite is ToME with Steamband going second, or possibly sCthangband.
But even in the early game which is the only part I've played widely (I get bored) there is no comparison. ToME and the modules based on it are by far the easiest. Steamband is the only one that can approach the same feeling in some cases.
If you think large kobolds are suddenly murderous and Lagduf the Snaga a nearly-unstoppable force of death, even though you tried to make a strong character, you are probably playing a hard variant.
By the way, my favorite is ToME with Steamband going second, or possibly sCthangband.
Zothiqband -- still an Angband variant.
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ShinesmanOffWhite
- Thalore
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:20 am
- Location: A Lost Temple, getting killed again
The originial Moria was pretty brutal. I remember reading the stories of legitimate winners who basically made it through the Balrog by chugging potions of invulnerability right and left. The amount of stairscumming required sounded like A+ notfun, and I never got there (heck, I don't think I ever got to 50 legitimately in that game).
I was able to beat Zangband with chaos types (Chaos/Death Mages, Chaos High Mages, Chaos Warriors) but for the most part that came down to abusing staves of the magi in order to have enough juice to power the Breathe Logrus and Mana Storms. Call the Void cast in (relatively) close quarters is truly a weapon of mass destruction. Mutation scumming was obnoxious to do but abusable because you could just clear the slate and start over if you got a mutation that was that critically annoying. I haven't played variants of it for a wihle, though.
Some things that make ToME "easy":
The tactics settings, which allow anyone to be a highly effective fighter (for their level) for the first few levels and gives free stealth to higher level mage types (or to warriors who just wander around meekly and then bust out a can of you-know-what when needed).
Items which give +% hp. Randarts of +40% hp are incredible at improving the survivability of a character, since more hp means simply more space to breathe. The 150 hp from the gondolin quest is in the same boat. Items of Sorcery from Theme are just kinda broken and should be sacked, IM(not so)HO.
Dungeon stores, which provide huge numbers of ego items (spawning 20 rings of speed to pick through speeds things up a lot, and stealing makes them easy to get a discount on...). These also allow players to stock up easily on useful potions. Even without abuse, they're a huge benefit.
FF and god quests if nothing else give additional skill points, so with 98 quests and all 5 (or 6) god quests completed, you simply have more "stuff" than an equivalent character from another variant.
Potions of Cure Critical Wounds also clearing status effects. This helps me through a *lot* of early game deaths, since confusion in a sticky situation is no longer an instant "good night."
The only things which really boost difficulty are the leveled monsters in Angband, having to find an Imm_Fire item to do mount doom, and the Void (which is sort-of optional).
I was able to beat Zangband with chaos types (Chaos/Death Mages, Chaos High Mages, Chaos Warriors) but for the most part that came down to abusing staves of the magi in order to have enough juice to power the Breathe Logrus and Mana Storms. Call the Void cast in (relatively) close quarters is truly a weapon of mass destruction. Mutation scumming was obnoxious to do but abusable because you could just clear the slate and start over if you got a mutation that was that critically annoying. I haven't played variants of it for a wihle, though.
Some things that make ToME "easy":
The tactics settings, which allow anyone to be a highly effective fighter (for their level) for the first few levels and gives free stealth to higher level mage types (or to warriors who just wander around meekly and then bust out a can of you-know-what when needed).
Items which give +% hp. Randarts of +40% hp are incredible at improving the survivability of a character, since more hp means simply more space to breathe. The 150 hp from the gondolin quest is in the same boat. Items of Sorcery from Theme are just kinda broken and should be sacked, IM(not so)HO.
Dungeon stores, which provide huge numbers of ego items (spawning 20 rings of speed to pick through speeds things up a lot, and stealing makes them easy to get a discount on...). These also allow players to stock up easily on useful potions. Even without abuse, they're a huge benefit.
FF and god quests if nothing else give additional skill points, so with 98 quests and all 5 (or 6) god quests completed, you simply have more "stuff" than an equivalent character from another variant.
Potions of Cure Critical Wounds also clearing status effects. This helps me through a *lot* of early game deaths, since confusion in a sticky situation is no longer an instant "good night."
The only things which really boost difficulty are the leveled monsters in Angband, having to find an Imm_Fire item to do mount doom, and the Void (which is sort-of optional).
As for me, Zothiqband (not dead, just progressing slowly like 3.0 for which it's done) will increase the difficulty by bringing back the Cth and some Z monsters. Never again scum the Sandworm Lair without meeting Shudde M'ell! Otherwise, I fear the difficulty level will become accidental when I start adding monsters...
Zothiqband -- still an Angband variant.
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LordBucket
- Uruivellas
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:08 am
- Location: Orange County, Ca
>Where could I get moria?
Try http://www.piratehaven.org/~beej/moria/
Be forewarned that it is the predecesser to Vanilla by a decade. No color, no uniques other than the Balrog, no artifacts, only four types of resistance (plus gas which cannot be resisted)...it might be difficult to take up after playing Angband and variants.
Try http://www.piratehaven.org/~beej/moria/
Be forewarned that it is the predecesser to Vanilla by a decade. No color, no uniques other than the Balrog, no artifacts, only four types of resistance (plus gas which cannot be resisted)...it might be difficult to take up after playing Angband and variants.