Though overall ToME's gameplay is very addictive and gives lot of satisfaction, there's one (oh, really two - traps of lessen your inventory along with sex change are darn annoying) thing that make this experience a lesser relax and intelligence-challenge. Yes, I'm talking about mass summoning (mostly from monsters, but these on the player side is merely to level the difference and thouroughly uses powers of monsters).
Though outwitting the big bad dragon in the mountains was neat, but now I'm waging the 9th war against the guy capable of dropping [spoiler removed before being written] and I'm sick of this! Aaaargh! 4 times being repelled by too great armies of monsters, 4 times my own undead armies got the sufficient advantage in battle. It has gone tedious, but I'm willing to finish the char I've driven so far, so I must get through this.
Maybe if he didn't summon the hordes AT ME it would help a bit, but he does and I cannot do the same to him...
Mass summoning
Moderator: Moderator
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Guest
I 'slightly dislike it'... there are already usually hordes of monsters anyway, and just adding to it with mass summoning can make _one_ level very daunting. I remember a level took me 1? hours (realtime) to get through one level (Sky Drakes, Wyrms). In some situations it can be *fun* to have a battle, especially if the level is not already bogged down with pits & large groups.
By the way, no radio button appeared next to poll answers to be able to vote.
By the way, no radio button appeared next to poll answers to be able to vote.
I am convinced that your idea would resolve the problem in the way satisfactory to everyone... I think that normal summoning monsters could summon up to their level of monsters (no more barbazu -> 10 barbazu -> 100 barbazu chains) and the number of the normal summoning monsters should be reduced (why almost every powerful unique summons? They could be made tougher, but this is... well, tedious as I said) and massive summoning capabilities were left only to special kinds of monsters (Summoners & Quylthyughs) [by 'massive summoning capabilities' I mean summoning only some up_to_level monsters, not that they're throwing powerful hordes at player almost every turn as beforementioned guy).Vagabond wrote: What about an option to switch off chain summoning on both sides or switch on on both sides?
->Guest
I suppose not-logged in people can't vote in the polls
I don't know if summoned monsters use mana once when they are summoned or do they use your mana after they are summoned, but I think it would be good solution to limit enemies' summoning by making them use mana like the player character. When their mana is used up they can summon no more until they have gained it back. Might be quite difficult to make that kind of change, but I'm sure Lord Dimwit is capable of doing that. 
Hmm.. If it isn't so already.. 
Hmm.. If it isn't so already.. Stronk is a potent combatant with a terrifying appearance.
It might make sense to have two types of monster summoning. The more common method creates partial summons which cannot summon in turn, act stupidly, and count against a limit to the number of monsters an individual monster can summon, but if Tselakus summons an ancient spirit as a partial it won't be coaligned to the player. Some monsters can summon full monsters which are like the current system.
I would limit full summons to Qs and uniques, meaning only master Qs could get into an endless summoning chain, but any Q or unique could summon summoners.
I would limit full summons to Qs and uniques, meaning only master Qs could get into an endless summoning chain, but any Q or unique could summon summoners.
Digitochracy
n. 1. technocracy. 2. government by the numbers. 3. rule by people with the longest fingers.
n. 1. technocracy. 2. government by the numbers. 3. rule by people with the longest fingers.
I voted for the hordes, but that's my latest opinion. I really hated those blinking bastards before. They come, or rather I stumble on them, and then there are like twenty zombies around me, and the bastard just blinks away.
That changed drastically with the controlled teleport ability and gaining a few more levels. Noone is going to blink away on me anymore
That changed drastically with the controlled teleport ability and gaining a few more levels. Noone is going to blink away on me anymore
Those Q's can be really anoying. I had a princess quest with 5 greater draconic Q's. Luckily I had earlier invested on symbiosis and so I had greater rotting beltbuckle which offered me a nice controlled teleportation. Game over, 5-0 for Hobbit swordmaster. 
Stronk is a potent combatant with a terrifying appearance.
I voted for "slightly dislike". I think having summoners and even summoned hordes brings variety to the game, but I think the current situation is way too horde-y on higher levels on both the player and the monster sides.
I also think summoning should be separated into two categories and the current version should be much rarer.
I think the current situation leads to incredibly cheesy events, like when my weak little lost soul found a spellbook of summoning, summoned a few animals before getting a Greater Draconic Quylthulg, which then proceeded to summon a couple of Ancient Dragons, which summoned more Ancient Dragons including Sky Drakes and overrun the whole level deep (at level 90?) in Mandos featuring Greater Titans in a giant pit and whatnot...
I also think summoning should be separated into two categories and the current version should be much rarer.
I think the current situation leads to incredibly cheesy events, like when my weak little lost soul found a spellbook of summoning, summoned a few animals before getting a Greater Draconic Quylthulg, which then proceeded to summon a couple of Ancient Dragons, which summoned more Ancient Dragons including Sky Drakes and overrun the whole level deep (at level 90?) in Mandos featuring Greater Titans in a giant pit and whatnot...
Zothiqband -- still an Angband variant.
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Lord Dimwit
- Uruivellas
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- Location: in The Void, alone
Mass summoning on the monsters' part isn't something that I have any trouble with. There are ways to prevent or reduce these summonings, and if they catch you off guard you can almost always just teleport away, rethink your strategy, and return. I don't think that monster summong needs any adjustment.
I think that player mass summoning is entirely different, since it doesn't even follow the same rules as monster summoning and really gives the player quite an unfair advantage. Greater Draconic Qs and possession abilities that summon greater undead are just silly in my book.
And, of course, monsters are stupid and don't know anti-summoning strategy.
I think that player mass summoning is entirely different, since it doesn't even follow the same rules as monster summoning and really gives the player quite an unfair advantage. Greater Draconic Qs and possession abilities that summon greater undead are just silly in my book.
And, of course, monsters are stupid and don't know anti-summoning strategy.
Last edited by Lord Dimwit on Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
Frobozz Node #9432
I voted that I didn't mind, but I do like this idea very much.Mayfair wrote:I don't know if summoned monsters use mana once when they are summoned or do they use your mana after they are summoned, but I think it would be good solution to limit enemies' summoning by making them use mana like the player character. When their mana is used up they can summon no more until they have gained it back.