ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
Posts: 1457
Have to admit, I've been ignoring the thing up 'til now. Haven't used it until today.

Today. Today I used it. Nevermind the bug involved (it'll currently shoot through walls), the thing itself, I think I might actually classify it as one of the best hand tinker options in the game, now, at least once it's voratun.

The short form is at t5, it's a range 10 weapon attack for 250% damage... that can hit twice. For comparison (and ignoring the debuffs involved), vital shot is limited to launchers and does 450% in one shot. And, now that I've tested it, it does indeed do exactly what the description says, and can trigger both your melee weapon procs and any that might be on your ammo. Or in other words, more or less a warden's call proc, except at 250% damage instead of at a penalty, bundled into two accuracy checks instead of three, and usable by pretty much anyone.

So. Seems like this thing actually might be pretty good. Haven't seen much/any mention of it on the forums, so it seemed like a good idea to take a mo' and spread the word, heh.

E: Oh hey, it also has an instant travel time, and doesn't hit intervening enemies. No need at all to worry about knockback or somethin', or the enemy moving, or much of anything really.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Sawbutcher wants Spring Grapple usually and everyone else needs steam powered boots to use it, but it's probably hilarious on psyshot at least

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:31 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:46 pm
Posts: 239
Yeah, it's not usable by just about anyone, as talents from hand tinkers require steam.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
Posts: 1457
Eh... anyone that can get a hand cannon can use steam generators, if they feel like it, and there's always rocket boots* to further excuse it. Whether an inscription slot is worth a talent that ends up pretty close in power to a prodigy... *shrugs* Also a few other arts besides the boots that offer steam restoration, for what that's worth, and just about any amount is good enough to make use of the cannon. Only so much in the game's going to survive more than one or two uses of a voratun one plus whatever you hit it with while the cannon's on CD, and a full steam pool tides you over for five shots. Also probably not going to get more than one or two off in a fight, heh, unless you've got CD reduction/reset that'll effect the cannon.

Still need to get around to seeing how it interacts with warden's call, though. The cannon doesn't care what ammo you're using, so long as you're using it. Arrows work just fine.

* And maybe thunder grenades... I still haven't gotten around to using the things, but at least eyeballing the code seems to suggest it actually is pretty generous with the stun application check.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Frumple wrote:
Only so much in the game's going to survive more than one or two uses of a voratun one

Maybe on normal.

Using a steam generator for handcannon is basically like unironically using an acid wave rune or something, inf slots are for defenses lol and a 1 use moderately powerful attack just can't compare to the utility of heroism, movement, salves, or shielding.

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Master of Eyal

Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:26 pm
Posts: 10228
Location: Angolwen
ster wrote:
Maybe on normal.


You do realize normal and NM are perfectly valid (and by far the most played) difficulties yes?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:53 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:47 pm
Posts: 606
Quote:
Using a steam generator for handcannon is basically like unironically using an acid wave rune or something, inf slots are for defenses lol and a 1 use moderately powerful attack just can't compare to the utility of heroism, movement, salves, or shielding.


Not really, as it allows you to also use rockets boots that are more or less equivalent to movement infusions. The speed is a bit smaller, but sufficient in most situations, and the CD is only 10.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:06 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
ghostbuster wrote:
Not really, as it allows you to also use rockets boots that are more or less equivalent to movement infusions. The speed is a bit smaller, but sufficient in most situations, and the CD is only 10.

rocket boots dont make you immune to stun and have like 330% movespeed boost max which is nothing compared to endgame move infusions

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:56 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:47 pm
Posts: 606
Quote:
rocket boots dont make you immune to stun and have like 330% movespeed boost max which is nothing compared to endgame move infusions


Stun is not a problem for tinkers. With a T5 grounding strap on a cloak they gain 50% stun immunity and raising it to 100% is not very difficult. And it applies always.

Concerning the speed, you are true. But 300% is sufficient in many situations.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
Posts: 1457
Eh... steam gen in this case wouldn't be one tinker vs. an inscription, anyway. It would be a pretty strong attack (that can hit just about anywhere in LoS, instantly, once it tops off), plus an on-call MS boost (not equivalent to high tier movement speed infusions, but those are only sometimes needed, and having another source of boost further reduces that need), plus potentially a ranged AoE stun (still need to get around to checking those grenades, and they're radius 1 at most regardless, but eh), none of which overlaps with your primary resources unless you're already a steam class and the consideration moot.

Depends on the class and situation, basically. Sometimes you won't have a strong enough inscription for a replacement to be really competitive to all that. Other times you won't need that extra inscription at that point in the game but still have a loose slot, and could get more out of a gen until you do. Sometimes it's going to be something you can do until an alternate source of steam gen shows up or whathaveyou. So on and so forth. Not likely to be optimal at all times in all situations, but it's something that can probably compete in a number of them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Magical Girl

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:36 am
Posts: 423
Frumple wrote:
Eh... steam gen in this case wouldn't be one tinker vs. an inscription, anyway. It would be a pretty strong attack (that can hit just about anywhere in LoS, instantly, once it tops off), plus an on-call MS boost (not equivalent to high tier movement speed infusions, but those are only sometimes needed, and having another source of boost further reduces that need), plus potentially a ranged AoE stun (still need to get around to checking those grenades, and they're radius 1 at most regardless, but eh), none of which overlaps with your primary resources unless you're already a steam class and the consideration moot.

Depends on the class and situation, basically. Sometimes you won't have a strong enough inscription for a replacement to be really competitive to all that. Other times you won't need that extra inscription at that point in the game but still have a loose slot, and could get more out of a gen until you do. Sometimes it's going to be something you can do until an alternate source of steam gen shows up or whathaveyou. So on and so forth. Not likely to be optimal at all times in all situations, but it's something that can probably compete in a number of them.

Heroism and movement are the two infusions you pretty much never give up for steam gen, salves, or tinkers in general, but you can give up something else ideally.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 396
Location: From Russia with atchoum!
ToME4 has different... tiers of accessible information - steam is tier 3 (possible), this forum is tier 2, and in-game chat is tier 1.
I heard that hand cannon does 5 K shots 1 year ago, when wasn't banned in chat yet.
And now it is on a forum. :mrgreen:

The main problem with it - I want a disarming immunity for first place, if not that - of course Hand Cannon is a must.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:49 am
Posts: 52
ster wrote:
Using a steam generator for handcannon is basically like unironically using an acid wave rune or something


My most successful bulwark used an acid wave rune. I happened to find one that scales on strength, so... against magical enemies, I used it for the status cure. Against physical enemies, I used it for disarm. And either way, the damage was really really good.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:09 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
GlassGo wrote:
I heard that hand cannon does 5 K shots 1 year ago, when wasn't banned in chat yet.

ok how did that happen i'm curious, PM me

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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