ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:33 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:53 am
Posts: 24
Also, Saw Wheels are an unlimited-use escape. If you are somehow outclassed and need a few turns to rest and recover, you can reliably count on having the wheels to take you as far as you need. Practically no cooldown and no limit to how far you can go.

I agree that Saw Wheels+Tempest of Metal is more broken than a china shop with a bull in it. In my second game as a sawbutcher (first game I restarted due to a level 30 demon in the yeti caves) I got to the final dungeon. This was with an orc, not a whitehoof, and I didn't use CB. (Note that I have only one win on my regular campaign record.)

My one problem was a radiant horror, because I was dishing out so much fire and light damage along with my buzzsaws that my attacks kept healing it. :mrgreen: So I just packed up and ran from it.

Personally, I didn't find the Sunwall too difficult so long as I kept my injectors ready and my Grinding Shield on. Sunwall mages deal a lot of damage but they go down like punks. Aeryn required tactical escapes and was a bit of a grind though (because I didn't use CB).


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:58 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:05 pm
Posts: 31
Tempest of Metal definitely needs to proc only when you attack, rather than just moving by enemies.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:37 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:07 am
Posts: 41
AbsoluteO wrote:
... huge damage ...


I think a lot of that is the broken Pain Enhancement System prodigy. I did a similar test with only Flexible Combat and the damage sustains, and I could do 10,000/turn against a plain dummy while moving, or 2,600/turn with regular attacks only.

The best damage dealer I've played in the regular campaign was a Brawler that could do 2,800/turn with regular attacks, and that character could melt the final bosses on Insane. Sawbutchers can also remove magical sustains.

Psyshots also feel very powerful, but probably not broken. Gunslingers are kinda weak-- weaker than Archers definitely.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:08 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:12 am
Posts: 543
Cloak Gesture 4/5 alone is enough to elevate gunslingers above archers. If it had better uptime it'd be even more broken than Ice Wall because you can shoot through it.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:46 am
Posts: 1
Ravenholme wrote:
Tempest of Metal definitely needs to proc only when you attack, rather than just moving by enemies.


The problem is that Saw Wheels still counts as an attack, so nothing will change unless Saw Wheels gets changed to not count as an attack or is limited to damaging once per turn.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:03 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:18 pm
Posts: 32
As someone with no practice with ranged classes at all, what are peoples' thoughts regarding gunslinger and psyshot in general?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:30 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:07 am
Posts: 41
ProfessorCirno wrote:
As someone with no practice with ranged classes at all, what are peoples' thoughts regarding gunslinger and psyshot in general?


Psyshot is more of a mage than a ranged class. I'm about to take Sunwall with my first one. They're very good at maintaining their steam and psi resources, have several nice escapes, great resists, fairly good shields. I'm focusing mine on Nightmare/Inner Fears. The character freezes the game a lot though, so I'm setting it aside until that's fixed.

Gunslingers are very steam intensive. I'm playing my second one now, and I made sure to get a second steam generator for level 10. They've got good movement speed, but little instant mobility. They can block enemy vision to keep ranged enemies off them. They lack the Archer's attack speed. I'll have to try one on the vanilla campaign on Nightmare, so I can compare.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:29 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 828
Even without abusing sawwheels, I agree that Sawbutcher is pretty overpowered. I played on Nightmare Adventurer, and except for 1 death early on to a high level vault (should have avoided it but was overconfident) my only other 2 deaths were to my own Inner Demons. They just inflict ridiculous damage and are very, very tanky. Combined with the free cog item, I had something like 40% chance to avoid any damage, -30% melee damage taken/projectile evasion, 90 flat damage reduction from Furnace, -67% damage dealt via To the Arms and overwhelming offence.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:15 pm 
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Low Yeek

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:49 pm
Posts: 6
I had an extraordinarily easy time with my first Embers run as a Sawbutcher as well, but I didn't even abuse Saw Wheels, only using it for movement. The main thing that I think is probably a bit overpowered is Mow Down, which a) completely eliminates any steam issues with enough phys crit, and b) provides very strong mitigation by way of continuous AoE brainlock.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:30 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:07 am
Posts: 41
I just wrapped up a Gunslinger Nightmare run. They've got some great damage reduction. About 60 reduction from Tessellation + 60% deflection, about 100 reduction from the Steam suit, and about 100 armor. Also had near-max resists on everything, partially due to "of nature" guns. I only got killed by my own Vital Shot, and screwing around with those level 150's in hidden vaults.

Vital Shot + Supercharge Bullets is pretty rad; 2x 5k damage shots hitting everything in a line. Combustive might work too, but I didn't try it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:47 am 
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Yeek

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:29 pm
Posts: 10
chandl34 wrote:
Vital Shot + Supercharge Bullets is pretty rad; 2x 5k damage shots hitting everything in a line.


I can't find this "Vital Shot" in my character's sheet. Could you tell how to unlock it?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:35 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:19 am
Posts: 1148
Location: Yeehaw, pardner
It's a prodigy.


I screwed around a bit more and went for Eye of the Tiger and that new constitution prodigy, just to stack flat damage reduction. Heck, once I got my third prodigy, I picked the new strength one, thinking it would synergize really well with the tinker item that gives 20% crit chance. I was right.

_________________
A little bit of a starters guide written by yours truly here.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:11 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:24 pm
Posts: 111
I have had the same experience with sawbutchers. It really feels like no one even played one before release, so ridiculously op!
I think I might just stop this run. I'm lvl 40 and barely take any damage and can kill everything by just running about with sustains up. It's kinda ruining the dlc for me, I expected a challenge!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:37 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:07 am
Posts: 41
Dougiegee wrote:
I expected a challenge!


Most challenging part of the DLC I found was doing Sunwall without attacking the Observatory or Ritch Nest. That adds in more bosses and uniques than you'd normally see playing on Insane. Doing the Palace of Fumes without breaking the pipes is similar. I didn't try ignoring the Port too; I wonder if that would've made things worse.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:58 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:38 am
Posts: 17
Hmm.

I thought it was fairly easy on both my runs until I got to Aeryn. I got owned both times I fought her in the caves. Lost every one of my lives twice!

I guess that must be the character build test in this campaign. I am obviously doing something wrong because I never saw her drop below 50% health. I am guessing some type of silence might help there. The first fight with her was easy though.


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