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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:28 am 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 12:24 am
Posts: 1
How do the block and riposte mechanics interact exactly? I've been toying with Bulwark and Sun Paladin classes and am unsure on a few things involving block. Should I be using the Block talent provided by shields every time its up? Does Riposte only work when the Block talent has been used?


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:30 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:24 am
Posts: 20
Activating Block or Shield Slam (and a very few other abilities) puts you in a blocking state, absorbing "Block Value" worth of damage from any attacks for a turn - actually it's not limited to attacks and it doesn't block attacks per-se, only damage, if the shield resists a damage type, it'll block any damage of that type including spells, aoe, damage-over-time ticks like burning and so on. When block has blocked all the damage of an attack (even if it's like a spell or damage over time or something) a counterstrike debuff is put on the attacker which lasts for 1-2 turns (not sure exactly how it determines it) allowing one of your bump attacks to do double damage - essentially a stamina-free enhanced attack mildly worse than your stamina-costing moves but better than a normal bump attack.

Riptose causes the counterstrike debuff to be applied even if you only blocked some of the damage, increases the duration of the counterstrike buff, increases the number of counterstrikes you can perform before the counterstrike debuff is removed from the enemy and increases the critical chance for the counterstrikes. Riptose makes it easier to do things like block attacks from multiple attackers, then counterstrike each of them over the next few turns. The extra critical chance - which is quite substantial - might put it on-par with your other moves.

Whether you *should* block on cooldown depends a good deal on your shield. Does it have a really high block value and relevant resists? For example a nature resist shield is good against an oozermancer since chances are excellent it'll block SOME kind of nature damage (from a poison or aoe) and so you'll stick counterstrike. Counterstrikes aren't really better than your stamina-costing moves, but since they use your attack skill they don't cost stamina and aren't subject to cooldowns.

The problem with blocking is that even though in an ideal case you won't take any damage for that turn, you also forsake a turn where you could have used a heavy damage move and the counterstrikes aren't really better than your normal offensive talents. But with an investment in Riptose it will likely be better to block then counter attack 2 times, than it is to just bump 3 times (in fact this is true even if your shield is garbage), so once your useful moves are on cooldown or if you're running out of stamina you may as well block and bump. Riptose also enhances Shield Slam if you can be bothered paying attention to whether you got counterstrikes out of it. Also counterstrike can be effective for overcoming certain kinds of damage reduction since Bulwark doesn't have many hard hitting single attack moves (and Sun Pally can be a bit limited in terms of raw physical damage) so being able to bump at 200% several times in a row isn't bad. Overall I'd say Riptose is worth the 4 points if you can be bothered to optimize your shield.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:12 pm
Posts: 179
Riposte/Counterstrike applies to more than just bump attacks. It applies to any melee attack, to my knowledge. Notably, Assault at TL5 gives you a shield strike for 137% damage, and two automatic crits for 137% base damage apiece, modified by critmult. If you have default 150% crit mult, that's going to be a whopping (2*137*1.5) = 411% weapon damage PLUS the shield strike for an extra 174% shield weapon damage total. All of this happens in one turn so should all be affected by Counterstrike, to the best of my knowledge, giving the numbers stated here. A non-CStrike Assault does half this damage.

The reason many people say the Block talent is bad is because it rarely blocks all the damage you take from someone after you get out of the T1s, and it sacs a turn that you could have used to do something else. A better idea is to use Shield Slam, which attacks (multiple times!) and THEN blocks, so you get the best of both worlds, both dealing damage and blocking. There are some other skills that also trigger a block, but none on Bulwark or SP that I remember. Riposte allows you to actually trigger Counterstrike reliably instead of having to block a whole hit to do so (which, honestly, rarely ever happens in my experience).

However, using Block to set up for a bigger hit is totally fine if you don't have other, better options. You could bump attack and then Assault for 100% wep from the bump attack + 205% wep + 137% Shield from Assault, or you can Block, reduce damage on one turn, and unload a buffed Assault on the next turn for the aforementioned 411% wep + double shield hit. I'm just using Assault here as an example of a fat hit; you can use anything you like, the bigger the better. If you have Assault then that means you have at least one point in Shield Slam, which is outright better than Block in all situations, but Block is a fine alternative if SS is on cooldown or if, for some unknown reason, you decided not to pursue the Shield Offense tree beyond Riposte.

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