ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal
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What Makes a Win Legit?
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=47331
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Author:  rincewind [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

For me kinda funny to read about "cheats" from people which abusing game by killing civilians in LH and other towns for cool items. They even have addons for faster killing them and LH as starter city.

Wow, but using items from item vault while you survived hardest part of game is cheating! what a hypocrites...

Author:  Micbran [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

don't do this to yourself man, you're gonna start a shitstorm

Author:  Row [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

Agree with ricewind, killing civilians by drowning them is NOT a legit way to progress. Makes the game too easy then, I would say at least one difficulty level easier. That is definitely not intended way of overpowering your character and IMO should be removed. But as someone stated earlier, you can do whatever you want to enjoy the game, of course.

Author:  Micbran [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

Row wrote:
Agree with ricewind, killing civilians by drowning them is NOT a legit way to progress. Makes the game too easy then, I would say at least one difficulty level easier.


yes for every civilian you drown, the spawning algorithm removes one rare+ spawn from every zone so that the game is essentially nightmare.

Not saying that drowning is a good and fun mechanic nor that it is intended, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it cheating.

Author:  dadito [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

Have you guys played insane to be able to make those statements?

Author:  voltteccer [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

rincewind wrote:
item vault

LITERALLY pay2win

Author:  Shaidyn [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

voltteccer wrote:
LITERALLY pay2win


Could any character conceivably expect to assemble a full "Black" set before beating the game, without the item vault?

Author:  ragnarokio [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

addons that make it faster to reroll your start (which presumably involves moving to last hope and then drowning everyone and maybe checking shops) ultimately just save you time since you could get your ideal start by grinding anyway, but at that point you may as well just use an addon that lets you choose your starting gear.

Author:  ster [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

Row wrote:
Agree with ricewind, killing civilians by drowning them is NOT a legit way to progress. Makes the game too easy then, I would say at least one difficulty level easier. That is definitely not intended way of overpowering your character and IMO should be removed. But as someone stated earlier, you can do whatever you want to enjoy the game, of course.

so have you ever played high difficulty at all? the effect of drowning is much less than you seem to think, it mostly just makes the tier 1 dungeons go more smoothly and means you aren't walking around with half a kit in randboss land. even if you get a truly exceptional fixedart/randart it will not make t2 dungeons significantly easier and will be phased out completely by the time you reach dreadfell.

Author:  Tyren [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

If somebody claimed he was extremely lucky getting multiple desired escorts is there a good way to test if it's BS?

Author:  tabs [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

ster wrote:
Row wrote:
Agree with ricewind, killing civilians by drowning them is NOT a legit way to progress. Makes the game too easy then, I would say at least one difficulty level easier. That is definitely not intended way of overpowering your character and IMO should be removed. But as someone stated earlier, you can do whatever you want to enjoy the game, of course.

so have you ever played high difficulty at all? the effect of drowning is much less than you seem to think, it mostly just makes the tier 1 dungeons go more smoothly and means you aren't walking around with half a kit in randboss land. even if you get a truly exceptional fixedart/randart it will not make t2 dungeons significantly easier and will be phased out completely by the time you reach dreadfell.


I think you're both conflating legitimacy and efficacy. It's possible to become overpowered through legitimate manipulation of the system, and it's possible to flagrantly cheat for little real benefit.

Author:  Row [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

ster wrote:
so have you ever played high difficulty at all? the effect of drowning is much less than you seem to think, it mostly just makes the tier 1 dungeons go more smoothly and means you aren't walking around with half a kit in randboss land. even if you get a truly exceptional fixedart/randart it will not make t2 dungeons significantly easier and will be phased out completely by the time you reach dreadfell.


Yes, from my experience playing easy/normal/nightmare/insane. Haven't tried madness. Abusing drowning makes the game about one level easier. So winning on insane with drowning is about the same achievement as winning on nightmare without drowning.

Author:  ster [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

Row wrote:
ster wrote:
so have you ever played high difficulty at all? the effect of drowning is much less than you seem to think, it mostly just makes the tier 1 dungeons go more smoothly and means you aren't walking around with half a kit in randboss land. even if you get a truly exceptional fixedart/randart it will not make t2 dungeons significantly easier and will be phased out completely by the time you reach dreadfell.


Yes, from my experience playing easy/normal/nightmare/insane. Haven't tried madness. Abusing drowning makes the game about one level easier. So winning on insane with drowning is about the same achievement as winning on nightmare without drowning.

yes drowning definitely makes the one hard part of the game that cant be trivialised by digging (reknor vor:A briagh) easier, where you will be decked out in t3 randarts minimum anyway, and maybe 10% of a level ahead because of drowning

in reality its just that insane is very easy no matter what you do and drowning just makes the early game less tedious to play through.

Author:  Micbran [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

I drowned and still died in the prides. Guess I didn't drown enough. :P

Seriously though, I don't see how you can make that kind of statement, that by drowning on Insane the difficulty is suddenly akin to nightmare. Yes, drowning gives you levels (usually to 8), yes it gives you loot (I usually reset for one randboss bc I'm lazy) but I don't see how it lowers the difficulty of the whole game (T1's-T2's to backups-prides to end).

Author:  voltteccer [ Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Makes a Win Legit?

Row wrote:
Yes, from my experience playing easy/normal/nightmare/insane. Haven't tried madness. Abusing drowning makes the game about one level easier. So winning on insane with drowning is about the same achievement as winning on nightmare without drowning.
Said the guy with no wins on either Insane or Nightmare, and 0 Insane difficulty Achievements. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tyren wrote:
If somebody claimed he was extremely lucky getting multiple desired escorts is there a good way to test if it's BS?
No.

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