ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:08 pm
Posts: 340
So I found two very cool artifact items. One being an amulet that converts all damage to light and darkness. The other being a ring that converts all damage to several elemental types.

If I equip them both at the same time, it seems the amulet overrides the ring, and damage remains light and darkness. Why is that, how is it working?

Also, since the damage is initially physical before being converted, all Strength/Physical Power/Physical Damage bonuses are applied before the conversion, correct? But then, after it's converted, bonuses to those elements (in this case, light and darkness) are also applied on top of that? In another game I play called Path of Exile I think this interaction is called 'double dipping'

I wonder if there is a way to exploit this even further. Some type of Arcane Blade build or something.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:11 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:41 pm
Posts: 293
There's no such thing as "strength/physical power" boosts to physical damage. What you have is "weapon attack" and "non weapon attack". A weapon attack damage scales on your physical physical power, along with Strength if your specific weapon scales from that stat.

Once that value has been computed (compounding crits, armor, armor penetration, talent % modifier and maybe a few extras), the game will apply some amount of (usually) physical damage to the target. But at that point, your ring/amulet hijacks it and transforms that instance of damage into others. The physical damage bonus/penetration/resistance never got the time to come into the equation and only the specific elements your item transforms the damage into counts.

So
Physical Power => yes if attacking with a weapon
Strength => yes if attacking with a weapon that scales on Strength
Physical damage bonuses => no


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:46 pm
Posts: 239
Yeah, the effect on damage from physical power and whatever stats your weapon scales with have nothing to do with it being physical damage, and are the same if you use a weapon that deals solely a different damage type, or a talent that deals weapon damage as some other damage type.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:53 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
also those items arent very good because splitting your damage 4 types splits your damage boosts, and makes it really vulnerable to stuff like flat armor and psi-shields.

attenuate from PM extends itself though with multiple damage types, which is really good and funny

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:43 pm
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Mental Tyranny + Madness (from Doomed) is also awesome with that gear. 4 Madness procs per hit are... nice.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:26 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:08 pm
Posts: 340
ster wrote:
also those items arent very good because splitting your damage 4 types splits your damage boosts, and makes it really vulnerable to stuff like flat armor and psi-shields.

attenuate from PM extends itself though with multiple damage types, which is really good and funny


I just use it when I'm up against opponents who have lots of armor or a high resist to physical or whatever element I'm using. That seems to be way more common than tons of light and darkness resist

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:19 am
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Location: Yeehaw, pardner
It literally has no effect against enemies with high armor if you're using a weapon attack.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 10:28 pm
Posts: 149
You'll probably do even less damage, since its going through multiple resistances and it's likely that you won't have decent damage bonus/penetration of those elements

Weapon damage is weapon damage, doesn't matter the element it is, so it will go against the resistances of those elements and armor


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:19 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:46 pm
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Yeah, making your damage non physical doesn't help with enemy armor. Whether armor applies is based on whether it's weapon damage, not whether it's physical damage. Thus armor doesn't help against stone magic or snow giant boulder throwers even though it's physical damage. Equipping such an item might help against an enemy with high physical resist, but not against high armor.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:08 pm
Posts: 340
Oh well that's good to know. Thanks guys, I'm learning more every day.

And yes I just assumed your genders.

Still no idea why the amulet overrides the ring, and not vice versa?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:19 am
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Probably the way/order equipment slots are resolved, most likely.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5506
Nah, its the way the code checks the properties.

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