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 Post subject: Raze and "on spell crit"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:05 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm
Posts: 71
Raze triggers "on spell crit" effects. That means that, by endgame, it's entirely possible to be generating 10+ spell crits per turn.

What're the best ways for an adventurer to harness that?

Corona is one obvious option; does being limited by positive and negative energy prevent that from being as excessive as a good adventurer build should be? (There's no way to generate unlimited +/- energy the same way you can with mana and vim, right?)

I also thought of Eye of the Tiger, but as that triggers at most once per turn it presumably falls into the category of "merely nice".

Is there something amazing that can be done with unlimited vim? (I assume that Fearscape is nice in that scenario.)

What options am I missing that could be amazing with a large number of spell crit procs per turn?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:59 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:55 pm
Posts: 199
Pretty sure it triggers on any damage, not just spells and not just crits.

I was thinking of how to use this in an adventurer and thought of two things: alchemist bombs and Radiance.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:46 pm
Posts: 239
Someone made a thread recently for wyrmics focusing on this. Among the things it said to do was vault elemental fury and certain other artifacts, and take mental tyranny in order to split your damage and trigger multiple raze procs (capped at 15 per turn).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:40 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 1:58 am
Posts: 742
Black Robe has 5% on spell hit chance for three damage spell procs and Lifedrinker has 15% chance for a Blood Grasp proc. If Raze counts as a spell for this purpose, you will often trigger at least two or three of these four procs. A build with something like a sling mainhand, Lifedrinker offhand, and Black Robe armor could do crazy damage.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:07 pm
Posts: 41
To clarify what I'm pretty sure visage is saying, raze does NOT trigger effects that occur "on spell hit," but does trigger those that occur "on spell crit." So with 15 procs per turn, these effects could be very useful.
Can't think of any right now though.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm
Posts: 71
bpat wrote:
Black Robe has 5% on spell hit chance for three damage spell procs and Lifedrinker has 15% chance for a Blood Grasp proc. If Raze counts as a spell for this purpose, you will often trigger at least two or three of these four procs. A build with something like a sling mainhand, Lifedrinker offhand, and Black Robe armor could do crazy damage.


Yeah, I was noticing those artifacts on a recent Anorithil Insane winner. However, those trigger on spell hit, not spell crit. Not directly useful for Raze, alas.

Now, a build that's using Raze to trigger an enormous number of Corona procs might use those artifacts to ridiculous effect. (Can each of those effects trigger more than once in a turn? I have a vague recollection that I convinced myself at some point that spells procced from items have a once-per-turn limit.)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:57 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:00 pm
Posts: 786
The only "on spell crit" effects I really know of are Corona and items that give +resource on spell crit. Corona potentially has strong synergy, but it would probably be hard to generate enough pos/neg energy to keep it going. With some decent +resource on spell crit items, you could generate huge amounts of mana/vim per turn though. I don't know of any items that generate pos/neg energy on spell crit to fuel Corona.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm
Posts: 71
Effigy wrote:
The only "on spell crit" effects I really know of are Corona and items that give +resource on spell crit. Corona potentially has strong synergy, but it would probably be hard to generate enough pos/neg energy to keep it going.


Yeah, energy generation does seem to be the big limiter on a raze-corona build. (Well, that and sustain disablers...)

Even running Star Fury for Twilight Surge and Sun for, well, all of it, I'm finding that Positive Energy generation in particular is a problem. It may be that adding Light to the mix would be sufficient, but that's an awful lot of category points to power one combo. (At least Light would have its own rewards.)

I understand that Hidden Resources and Highborn's Bloom don't affect Corona, so those options are out. The code seems to have support for a resource leech that could generate Positive and Negative energy, but I'm not sure what if anything actually uses that.

I have had a potentially-clever idea for helping out on the resource front, though. As far as I can tell, Corona is unaffected by fatigue... so if I load up on that I can multiply my generation without impacting my expenditure. :)

On the plus side, damage output can be pretty good. At 29 in Insane, my current character has over 60% spell crit and each corona bolt is doing around 70 damage. So, for as long they've got the energy Corona alone can dish out 630+ damage per target within range (up to 5 targets). Fighting a boss in a hallway with a stack of summons behind them can be quite satisfying, for all that raze+corona is unlikely to hold a candle to magical combat + stone. (Now, if Mana Coils would trigger more than once per turn we would have a ridiculous damage output with this combo.... The Black Robe and Lifedrinker would both be pretty nice; I suppose I should look through my characters to see if any happen to have them sitting around.)

One thing about raze+corona that hadn't occurred to me: it doesn't work all that well with Psytech Gunnery -- too many corona bolts end up missing due to range, and the lag time on bolts reaching their targets is annoying.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:25 am 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm
Posts: 71
visage wrote:
I have had a potentially-clever idea for helping out on the resource front, though. As far as I can tell, Corona is unaffected by fatigue... so if I load up on that I can multiply my generation without impacting my expenditure. :)


FWIW, this does actually work -- at least as far as Insane it's perfectly viable to do:
Class: Earthen Power, Doomshield, Demonic Pact, Flux, Sun, Undead Drake (@10), Eclipse (@36), Star Fury (@Bile)
Generic: Dwarf, F.E.M., Light, Tinkers or Demonic Strength (@20)
Prodigies: Eternal Guard, Arcane Might

It'd be really tempting to find a place for Shadowflame in there -- Fearscape sounds quite nice with unlimited Vim income. Perhaps Flux is overkill in Insane....


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