ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:00 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 168
There are a couple of posts on here about tanking Madness, and while I don't aspire to it I'm trying to figure out related issues for my own adventurer builds (mostly aiming for a Sawbutcher / Demonologist / Sun Paladin hybrid).

If you've got Arcane Shield, Shield of Light, and Osmosis Shield all up, and someone hits you, what happens? I don't understand the "stack" in Tome.

Likewise, Grinding Shield, Tempest of Metal, and Reality Smearing.

Thanks.

e:
For reference, planned character is Cornac Adventurer

Starting
Inscription +1
Sun
Light
Demonic Pact
Doom Shield
Butchery
Battlefield Management
Chronomancy: Flux

10: Guardian
20: Tinker Escort unlock
36: Automated Butchery
Wyrm: Finer Energy Manipulations

PES, Arcane Might or Arcane Might, Cauterize

Sun was just going to be there to feed positive energy for Guardian, but Path of the Sun is actually great fun with Saw Wheels - you can run it past people and knock them the heck away, or rev up to 100% power without using any actions. Saw Wheels is also really helpful for keeping others out of your Bathe in Light.

Recommend restart until you get 2 high level flame imp seeds in Last Hope. (Not sure if this helps, but I switched mainhand and offhand saw after proccing first seed).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:13 am 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm
Posts: 71
Snarvid wrote:
If you've got Arcane Shield, Shield of Light, and Osmosis Shield all up, and someone hits you, what happens? I don't understand the "stack" in Tome.


As I understand things, an Arcane Shield proc is just a damage shield, and those are pretty early in the damage resolution sequence. Damage shields prevent you from taking damage, so prevents the Shield of Light and Osmosis Shield effects.

In the case where you don't have a damage shield, Osmosis Shield is in the CallbackOnHit category, and that comes after Shield of Light. ...but the sequencing there isn't particularly relevant, because neither prevents damage.

(If you were depending on Osmosis Shield for a lot of your effective mitigation, the last thing you'd want to run is a damage shield since that would interrupt the gravy train.)

Edit: Oh, I bet you're asking about how the healing of Shield of Light and Osmosis Shield work when triggering Arcane Shield. I actually have no idea, my intuition is that Shield of Light would trigger it and Osmosis Shield wouldn't. Have you tested it out -- how'd it work?

Snarvid wrote:
Likewise, Grinding Shield, Tempest of Metal, and Reality Smearing.


Reality Smearing is a CallbackOnHit like Osmosis Shield; my experience is that RS is always resolved after OS (which is thus an awesome synergy), but I assume that's not hardcoded but is instead a result of the order in which the callbacks are registered -- apparently those are resolved in LIFO order.

I'd have to go looking into the code again to see whether Grinding Shield is a CallbackOnHit or if it's hardcoded into the sequence somewhere. (If its position is hardcoded, then it's almost certainly before Osmosis Shield and Reality Smearing.)

The evasion effects of Grinding Shield and Tempest of Metal should be before any of the rest of this, as I understand things.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:29 am 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:09 pm
Posts: 71
Ok, some elaboration:

Grinding Shield: Sets projectile_evasion and flat_damage_cap, which presumably get handled in their normal places in the sequence (evasion should be quite early, flat damage cap is late but before CallbackOnHit).

Tempest of Metal: chance to cancel damage is before all damage shield effects and way before CallbackOnHit effects.

Arcane Shield / Fungal Growth: These do not seem to be triggered by Osmosis Shield or Shield of Light, based on a quick experiment.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:48 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm
Posts: 2258
replaced this with a separate post with LOTS of detail:

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=47993

_________________
MADNESS rocks


Last edited by jenx on Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 168
Thanks for the responses, I didn't see these.

Yeah, I was wondering if the healing from the Shield of Light / Osmotic / Suffuse Life would create a damage shield from Arcane Shielding, and if so, how it would happen (could it's terrible if it constantly replaces whatever you have up). I did not end up adding in Arcane Shielding to the mix because I wanted to punch up the Paladin's Positive Energy generation a little more, and I forget what happened to that character in the end (I think that was before I had to wipe everything due to a really weird series of bugs).

Edit: Arcane Shield does not trigger off Osmosis, I would assume no to Shield of Light as well.

I'll probably try it again with an Adventurer / Sawbutcher hybrid in the multiclass challenge mode one of these days, I really wanted to squeeze in more Sawbutcher talents to this build originally but couldn't. Should free up 4 category points from what I had planned, which opens up build diversity a lot, and having your weapon skill at 1.3 mastery is a plus.

Something like this:
Adventurer Sawbutcher (Strength>Magic>Willpower>Cunning)

Inscription
Flux
Demonic Pact
Doom Shield
Light
FEM
Psi Fighting

10: Automated Butchery, Guardian
20: Magical Combat, Stone
Wyrm: Either Sun for positive energy generation, Steamtech: Avoidance for Stealth and DR, or Inscription because you've only got so many points to go around

Prodigies: PES, Arcane Might


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:50 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm
Posts: 2258
Snarvid wrote:
Thanks for the responses, I didn't see these.

Yeah, I was wondering if the healing from the Shield of Light / Osmotic / Suffuse Life would create a damage shield from Arcane Shielding, and if so, how it would happen (could it's terrible if it constantly replaces whatever you have up). I did not end up adding in Arcane Shielding to the mix because I wanted to punch up the Paladin's Positive Energy generation a little more, and I forget what happened to that character in the end (I think that was before I had to wipe everything due to a really weird series of bugs).

Edit: Arcane Shield does not trigger off Osmosis, I would assume no to Shield of Light as well.

I'll probably try it again with an Adventurer / Sawbutcher hybrid in the multiclass challenge mode one of these days, I really wanted to squeeze in more Sawbutcher talents to this build originally but couldn't. Should free up 4 category points from what I had planned, which opens up build diversity a lot, and having your weapon skill at 1.3 mastery is a plus.

Something like this:
Adventurer Sawbutcher (Strength>Magic>Willpower>Cunning)

Inscription
Flux
Demonic Pact
Doom Shield
Light
FEM
Psi Fighting

10: Automated Butchery, Guardian
20: Magical Combat, Stone
Wyrm: Either Sun for positive energy generation, Steamtech: Avoidance for Stealth and DR, or Inscription because you've only got so many points to go around

Prodigies: PES, Arcane Might


Here is my best effort to answer your question: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=48052

_________________
MADNESS rocks


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