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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:12 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 5:59 pm
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Slowly as I read up on and try Adventurers, I'm discovering that many trees have special effects when unlocked. Well, actually, I'm not clear on whether unlocking them is enough or whether you have to put a skill point in them. For the most part, the idea is that some trees bring with them the special abilities of the classes they come form. I'd like to get a list of those, figure out how they work, and also poll the room about how they should work.

1. Mindslayers have telekinetic grip. Adventurers can learn it by unlocking (spending a point in?) any psionic category from the mindslayer class.

2. Archers, Rogues, Skirmishers, and Wardens start with the "shoot" talent unlocked. Adventurers can start the game with "shoot" by spending a skill point in an archery tree. Does any archery/x work? How about bow threading? Temporal Guardian?

3. Alchemists have a golem. I know that Adventurers can get a golem, but forget how. Is spell/golemancy required? Do Spell/Explosive Admixture or spell/stone alchemy count? Can you acquire a golem during play or only at creation.

4. Alchemists, archmages, and necromancers regenerate mana naturally. Is it possible for adventurers to regenerate mana naturally? (I assume "no").

5. Brawlers get improved attack speed with gloves. I heard that Adventurers can get this by taking technique/unarmed training. Are there other trees that qualify? Technique/Pugilism, for instance? Is there are any way to get the passive physical power that real brawlers get?

6. Cursed and Doomed characters can learn the "cursed aura" tree the first time they pick up a weapon. According to another thread, Adventurers cannot learn Cursed Aura, but there was some disagreement, and apparently an add-on that changes this. Does anyone know more?

7. Some classes start with free points in armor training, especially shield-using classes (so they can use shields). Is there any way for an Adventurer to get free armor training (I assume "no").

8. Per another thread, doing the Zigur quest does not unlock Anti-Magic for Adventurers. Does it give a free point in resolve? I assume that it does not, since it is using the Oozemancer code. If you do the Zigur initiation, but don't actually take any AM skills, what happens? Can you still use spells and arcane items? Can you still use the portal to Angolwen? Can you get the Fungus reward from Protector Myssil? Conversely, if you don't go to Zigur, but do unlock Anti-Magic, can you use the Angolwen portal?

8. Should, in your opinion, Adventurers get anything they currently can't get? From above, this includes Cursed Aura, free armor training, free physical power, free mana regen, and free anti-magic. Not listed above are the Stone Warden skills. Obviously adventurers as a whole don't need a buff; they can be crazy powerful already. The question is, would some of the above open up new options that fun but not better than existing ones? I'm tempted to say yes to cursed aura and to free armor training. Cursed Aura because it's cool but ultimately not that good. It's certainly not better than light, aegis, weaving, or conveyance. It's a pseudo-free cat point, but it would require a cursed tree, which are rarely used. If you really wanted to punish it you could make it dependent on cursed/cursed form. Armor Training, on the other hand, is a really strong bonus. 1-2 free generic points is very nice in the long run, but also makes the early levels way easier. Even though it's strong, I think it's worth it because adventurers based on fighting classes. Most adventurers are spell-based, or if combat-based, use esoteric combos of trees from multiple special classes like mindslayer, reaver, doombringer, or arcane blade. Very few seem to use berserker and bulwark trees. Even if we stepped back from looking at specific combos, we could look at HP. All else being equal you would expect adventurers to borrow skills from classes with -HP, so as to put them on a more durable body, not to borrow skills from classes with +hp and use them on a flimsier body. Also, unlocking "combat training" itself with a cat point is a horrifying waste currently, since it can be bought for free.

If I were king, I'd give adventurers +2 free armor training with tech/shield defense, +2 or 3 with technique/combat training, probably +2 with tech/shield offense, and +1 with technique/2-handed assault. I might give out +1 with technique/berserker strength and with cursed/cursed body.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:04 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:37 pm
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Adventuers can get 0.25 mana regen.

Any MS give TK grip including the generics.

Golemancy will give you a golem, but you kind of need the ability to make gems too or you may not be able to repair it.

If you main attack is unarmed you will use the attack speed of your gloves for you bump attack. Nothing really to do with brawler just that brawlers are better at unarmed.

Adventurers should always try to buy the combat training tree in Lost Hope and not spend a generic on it, but there is not special way to get a free point in anything in combat training outside of an escort (exotic weapons).


No I don't think Adventurers should get anything extra. Part of the challenge of adventurer is being very efficient with your choices. I am not sure if you can get cursed aura or not. If not that is the only thing they may be missing. If you build an Adventurer in an elegant and smart manner it can be very strong. If you pile everything in you wind up with a hot mess that might be worse than standard class. This is fine. In other words there is really is not problem to be solved by giving them extra stuff. Its entirely possible to make an incredibly tanky Adventurer as is right now. I have an Adventure using shields that can tank most of Madness. Giving me two more free points is not solving anything.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:18 am 
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Higher

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 60
OrionJAnderson wrote:
3. Can you acquire a golem during play or only at creation.


Take the golemancy tree. That the only one giving a golem.

OrionJAnderson wrote:
4. Alchemists, archmages, and necromancers regenerate mana naturally. Is it possible for adventurers to regenerate mana naturally? (I assume "no").


Any point spend in any spell requiring mana, give mana regen at 0.25 for adventurer

OrionJAnderson wrote:
5. Brawlers get improved attack speed with gloves.


You only get the 166% speed with any point spend in one of brawler trees: Unarmed mastery, or pugilism, or grappling, or finishing move, or unarmed discipline (not Mobility). That 's the only way to get the special speed, and skill/spell proc from gloves.

OrionJAnderson wrote:
6. Cursed and Doomed characters can learn the "cursed aura" tree the first time they pick up a weapon.


[edit] as stated by 64Lego you get Cursed Aura with 1 point in Unatural body.


OrionJAnderson wrote:
7. Some classes start with free points in armor training, especially shield-using classes (so they can use shields). Is there any way for an Adventurer to get free armor training (I assume "no").


Those point are free? Are always assumed they were taken from your pool. Eg: Bulwark as less generic point to spend than other.

Adventurer don't get free point. The Combat training tree can be bough for 50 gold in Hope.

OrionJAnderson wrote:
8.Can you still use spells and arcane items?


As of 1.3 you cannot use spell or arcane item if you have a point spent in Antimagic. You could in previous version.

A few other Adventurers shenanigan:


To get the Soul resource (necrotic aura) you need to get the Necrotic minions tree. That the only one that gives it.
Mindstar and Staff Mastery are sold in Zigur and Angolwen respectively.
The tree from Solipsism class don't give you all the feedback resource (solipsism, dream forge, ... does not) . I assume only the one using feedback (Discharge ?) or just Feedback.
You only get Spacetime tuning when you spend a point in a chronomancy spell with a paradox cost (activated, or sustain). A point spent in passive chronomancy skill will not give you the ability, and you'll be stuck to a 0 default paradox level. Chronomancy passive is my actual go to, as an adventurer. With 1000 paradox you can get some nice passive bonus (fold!!)
1 point in corrupted strenght give one free melee attack after a spell whatever the weapon in hand: 2 handed, 1 weapon and a shield, dualwielding, or even unarmed.


Last edited by ooli on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:04 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:24 am
Posts: 113
I'm pretty sure that you can get the Cursed Aura tree if you take Unatural Body in the Cursed Form tree.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:21 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:40 pm
Posts: 19
ooli wrote:
OrionJAnderson wrote:
4. Alchemists, archmages, and necromancers regenerate mana naturally. Is it possible for adventurers to regenerate mana naturally? (I assume "no").

Any point spend in any spell requiring mana, give mana regen at 0.25 for adventurer

This is not working for me when I start with one point in Congeal Time (Spell/Temporal). No mana regen while resting unless I inscribe the mana surge rune.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:24 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:38 pm
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ooli wrote:
Those point are free? Are always assumed they were taken from your pool. Eg: Bulwark as less generic point to spend than other.


Everyone gets the same number of unspent points at level 1 no matter how many or few spent points they start with and gets level up points on the same schedule. Unless they're being taken out of the level 50 lump they're free.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:33 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:09 pm
Posts: 338
vonfackenheim wrote:
ooli wrote:
OrionJAnderson wrote:
4. Alchemists, archmages, and necromancers regenerate mana naturally. Is it possible for adventurers to regenerate mana naturally? (I assume "no").

Any point spend in any spell requiring mana, give mana regen at 0.25 for adventurer

This is not working for me when I start with one point in Congeal Time (Spell/Temporal). No mana regen while resting unless I inscribe the mana surge rune.


I don't think I saw that either at the start of my run. I've been relying on mandatory mana rune for now.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:57 am 
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Higher

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:12 am
Posts: 60
Dracos wrote:

I don't think I saw that either at the start of my run. I've been relying on mandatory mana rune for now.


Do you have an Adventurer? (not shadowblade or arcane blade)
Do you have 1 point in a mana spell? like Congeal Time from the temporal tree?

If so you have mana regen 0.25. I just tried it with a bare adventurer with just this tree.

Or there is a problem with addon, or version or something.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:30 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:55 am
Posts: 95
One thing to mention which I think is not on the list:

Unlocking shield offence gives you 2.5% proc / acc on shields. I don't think you need to spend a point. You just need to unlock the tree.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:35 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:00 pm
Posts: 742
mikekchar wrote:
One thing to mention which I think is not on the list:

Unlocking shield offence gives you 2.5% proc / acc on shields. I don't think you need to spend a point. You just need to unlock the tree.

Basically, what this does is make the "hidden" offensive stats on shields available. You will also see procs and on-hit damage for the shield.

The same thing happens with gloves if you take Technique/Unarmed Training.


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