ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:38 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm
Posts: 2113
Gwf and frenzy = joy :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:39 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm
Posts: 2113
Gwf and dream hammer = .Armageddon. Total of 22 hits per turn possible :-D


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:15 am 
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Higher

Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:13 pm
Posts: 64
jenx wrote:
Gwf and dream hammer = .Armageddon. Total of 22 hits per turn possible :-D

You see an anorithil randelite, then...

jenx hit abc the whatever for 100,100,...,100(total 2200.00)
jenx killed abc the whatever!
abc the whatever hit jenx for 50,50,...,50(total 1100.00)
abc the whatever killed jenx!
jenx the level xx adventurer was darkened to death by abc the whatever in somewhere level X


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:56 pm 
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Halfling

Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:26 pm
Posts: 84
jenx wrote:
Gwf and dream hammer = .Armageddon. Total of 22 hits per turn possible :-D


How does that work?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:25 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm
Posts: 2113
adamn wrote:
jenx wrote:
Gwf and dream hammer = .Armageddon. Total of 22 hits per turn possible :-D


How does that work?


Dream hammer is a regular melee attack, that travels 10 spaces at 5/5. It can hit on the way back too . That makes 18 possible hits. Greater weapon focus gives an extra hour per turn. So max is 36 hits per turn.turn. So I was wrong about 22, should have been 36.

but there is a BIG downside. Say these 10 npcs each have 20 on hit damage defence. You'll get 20 * 36 = 720 damage!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:19 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:26 pm
Posts: 84
jenx wrote:
... that travels 10 spaces at 5/5. It can hit on the way back too.


Oooh you mean Hammer Toss? I thought you meant 22 hits against a single opponent. So really, if you had the perfect setup and were perfectly lucky, you could hit 18 enemies and get 18 gwf hits against an adjacent enemy. Am I understanding you right?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:05 am 
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Halfling

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 100
No, because the GWF hits are on the targets that get hit, not on whatever's adjacent. (And you can get way more with Forge Echoes.)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:53 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:03 pm
Posts: 717
Figured this should go here:

Gesture of Pain

In general, the Gesture of Pain replaces your normal attack whenever you would make one as part of a talent, ignoring the talent's damage modifier and damage type conversion. The exception is talents that explicitly specify the weapon used (such as Telekinetic Smash, which specifies the mainhand weapon, and the Dream Smith talents, which use the Dream Hammer). The Gesture attack is not considered a weapon attack, and therefore will not proc anything that triggers on a melee hit except for Cleave, Flexible Combat, and Intuitive Shots. It can, however, still "hit" the target by beating their mental save, so any additional effects the talent applies on hit (such as stunning) will still work. Bear in mind, though, that it only applies to effects that land if that particular talent's attack hits; bonuses that buff subsequent melee attacks will remain ineffective.

To clarify: If a talent says "makes an attack for X% [type] damage and stuns the target," the Gesture will make an attack for 100% mind damage, but will usually still stun the target. The "usually" is there because some talents bake their side effects into the damage type, which Gestures overrides. I'll try to cover those below.

The following talents all ignore Gesture of Pain entirely, and make their melee attacks as normal:

Corruption/Scourge
  • The entire tree

Psionic/Dream Smith
  • The entire tree

Psionic/Psi-Fighting
  • Telekinetic Smash

Psionic/Other
  • Beyond the Flesh (all TK attacks use the focus)

Technique/Dual Techniques
  • Dual Strike

Technique/Thuggery
  • Skullcracker

Wild Gift/Mindstar Mastery
  • Nature's Equilibrium

The following talents may have unexpected interactions with Gesture of Pain, due to nonstandard wording of the talent description or the use of special damage types:

Wild Gift/Ooze
  • Call of the Ooze - The channeled attacks all become Gestures.

Wild Gift/Cold Drake Aspect
  • Ice Claw - Deals a perfectly normal Gesture attack. Does not Freeze at high levels.

Wild Gift/Higher Draconic Abilities
  • Prismatic Slash - The primary attack is an ordinary Gesture attack that will not apply any of the listed status effects (though the ensuing explosion is elemental and can apply status effects).

Wild Gift/Venom Drake Aspect
  • Dissolve - Performs four full-power Gesture attacks (!) that can never blind, regardless of talent level.

Techniques/Dual Techniques
  • Flurry - Does three full-damage Gesture attacks.
  • Sweep - All enemies are hit with a normal Gesture attack, but the damage of the bleeding effect is based on the base damage of the mainhand mindstar.

Cunning/Dirty Fighting
  • Dirty Fighting - The attack is a Gesture attack as normal, but you won't get the free turn if Gesture of Pain's built-in stun chance works on the target, even if they save against the talent's own stun (note that this applies to any effect that could apply its own stun separate from the talent's).
  • Switch Place - That complex bit about touching the target with your weapon is actually just a regular attack at 0% damage. Gesture of Pain will perform a full-damage Gesture attack as usual.

Cursed/Slaughter
  • Cleave - Gesture attacks can proc the talent just like regular attacks, triggering an additional Gesture attack.

Cursed/Gloom
  • Weakness - The hate you get for making a melee strike on weakened foes applies to Gesture attacks, too.
  • Dismay - The automatic critical works for Gesture attacks, too.

Techniques/Battle Tactics
  • Bleeding Edge - The main attack is a Gesture as normal, but the damage of the bleeding effect is based on the base damage of your mainhand mindstar (or your unarmed damage).

Prodigies
  • Flexible Combat - Gesture attacks can proc the talent just like regular attacks, triggering an additional Gesture attack.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:30 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2275
Location: Ambush!
Neat. How about Pugilism / Double Strike?

Also, what's the attack speed for empty-handed Gesture of Pain if you know some unarmed talents? (Should be 60% or 80% based on gloves, but I don't know how to measure in-game time well enough to confirm.)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:47 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:01 pm
Posts: 1303
Location: Finland
Doctornull wrote:
(Should be 60% or 80% based on gloves, but I don't know how to measure in-game time well enough to confirm.)

No idea on the answer but I've heard good things about this time measuring add-on called Chronometer.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:14 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2275
Location: Ambush!
Faeryan wrote:
Doctornull wrote:
(Should be 60% or 80% based on gloves, but I don't know how to measure in-game time well enough to confirm.)

No idea on the answer but I've heard good things about this time measuring add-on called Chronometer.
Awesome addon, it still works and was able to give the answer.

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:03 pm
Posts: 717
Doctornull wrote:
Neat. How about Pugilism / Double Strike?


Two Gesture attacks.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:57 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:07 am
Posts: 36
>Neither telekinetic weapons nor shields count as dual-wielding [for arcane combat]

So does this mean if I do a mindstar/arcane combat combo (assuming that I can make it work with the sheer number of stats) It'll have the full odds once, or the full odds twice? Cause it might be worth trying to swing the number of stats for the latter...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:53 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:03 pm
Posts: 717
Any weapon attack can proc Arcane Combat, including telekinetic attacks, dream hammer attacks, and Flexible Combat procs. They will use the odds based on your equipment, so half odds if you're dual wielding. The combo you're talking about: I presume you mean that you want to have a TK mindstar, one-handed weapon, and shield? In that case, you'll get the full proc chance for each weapon strike and each telekinetic strike.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:24 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Posts: 2275
Location: Ambush!
Requia wrote:
>Neither telekinetic weapons nor shields count as dual-wielding [for arcane combat]

So does this mean if I do a mindstar/arcane combat combo (assuming that I can make it work with the sheer number of stats) It'll have the full odds once, or the full odds twice?
One Mindstar + a shield = sure. But that's terrible.

Sword & board + Mindstar in TK slot = sure, but that's suboptimal compared to putting a staff or 2-hander in the TK slot.

Two Mindstars = dual wielding = no, of course you can't have full odds twice.

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