ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 138
Just a place to start the conversation as I try to wrap my head around this fascinating new class.

1. How does Self-persistence combine with Improved form? Are they additive?
2. Anyone found a bonus Possession mastery mindstar to avoid needing a possession category point to control bosses?
3. Does Highborn's Bloom / Hidden Resources have any effect on body uses, either to use or on summon?
4. Force Shield stays in place once a two hander is unequipped. Exploit or WAI?
5. Can summons be possessed, and therefore could Yeek/Thalore summon and possess their own racial allies?
6. What happens if you go anti-magic and possess a magic user?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:19 am
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Location: Yeehaw, pardner
Snarvid wrote:
Just a place to start the conversation as I try to wrap my head around this fascinating new class.
...
6. What happens if you go anti-magic and possess a magic user?


Haven't played enough possessor before I got bored to answer the other questions but I can answer this one. Possessing a magic user while antimagic would just make you unable to use any of their spell talents. So chances are, you probably don't want mage bodies cluttering up your storage if you're antimagic since they would be squishier than most bodies and do nothing good for you.

You can steal racials, yes? Maybe I'll play them again to steal Pride of the Orcs.

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A little bit of a starters guide written by yours truly here.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:28 am
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Snarvid wrote:
Just a place to start the conversation as I try to wrap my head around this fascinating new class.

1. How does Self-persistence combine with Improved form? Are they additive?

When you have both Self-persistence and Improved form, they seem to work in an additive way from what I saw while playing 1.5.0b6. I'm not sure how it works when you have Self-persistence but not improved form yet.
Can't answer any of your other questions as I never got very far with a Possessor yet but I can add some of my own:
7. How does it work with resistances and speeds? The talent description says you "gain" them - so do you get a bonus or do the speeds of the monster you possess override your own? (if so, how does that interact with speed bonuses from, say, Yeek racials or from Solipsism-Clarity, and speed penalties like those you get at low Psi)
8. Is there some consensus about whether it's better to level up Solipsism or keep it at a low level? As a Possessor, your means of regenerating Psi are very limited in possessed form, and you will usually have MUCH higher HP than Psi when you assume a new form because strong monsters tend to have more max HP than player characters. So it might be reasonable to keep Solipsism levels low, especially IF you still get a speed penalty for low Psi when your have the talent that lets you gain the speeds of the monster you possess - any thoughts?

Micbran wrote:
So chances are, you probably don't want mage bodies cluttering up your storage if you're antimagic since they would be squishier than most bodies and do nothing good for you.

Well, they might be useful as soon as you have the talent that lets you summon forms from your storage.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Micbran wrote:
You can steal racials, yes? Maybe I'll play them again to steal Pride of the Orcs.

timeless

to answer various stuff from OP: the only way to get possession category mastery is through amulets, can't possess summons, and force shield IIRC doesn't give evasion unless you equip the 2hander but it stays on to avoid annoyance.

Oh and i maxed out solipsism on mine but it's not very focused on actual possession atm. Would still recommend as it provides more longevity for your bodies and much better survivability in human form, and you can use conventional healing to get psi back anyway. e: having played with possession some more i would say 3/5 is probably the best number

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:28 am
Posts: 23
Arakes wrote:
7. How does it work with resistances and speeds? The talent description says you "gain" them - so do you get a bonus or do the speeds of the monster you possess override your own? (if so, how does that interact with speed bonuses from, say, Yeek racials or from Solipsism-Clarity, and speed penalties like those you get at low Psi)

Ok, so as soon as you reach talent level 5 of Full Control - the monster speeds override your own, so you lose speed bonuses from Clarity, but you still suffer the speed penalty when your Psi reaches the Solipsism threshold. This sucks so hard...
Lesson learned: never level Full Control above effective talent level 4, doing so means you'll never get the extra monster talent slot at effective talent level 6, but I'd MUCH rather save two class points and keep my speed bonus from Clarity (and Quickened as I'm playing a Yeek Possessor) than get a measly extra talent slot.
This should be changed IMO, levelling up a talent should not make you weaker.

Edit: It's even worse than I thought... When you have Full Control at effective talent level 5, and you use Assume Form with full Psi meter, you get a speed penalty as soon as you lose ANY Psi (i.e. it's as if your Solipsism threshold is now 100%).
And when you get below your actual Solipsism threshold and start regenerating Psi, you not only lose the penalty but get your speed bonus from Clarity back.
I think this is a bug, this can't be the intended behaviour...
Also, either way, the talent description is very misleading - it says "gain speeds" for level 5 and "gain resistances" for level 3, but the former "gain" is actually "override" while the latter is truly a "gain" because you can keep your own resistances.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:48 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Arakes wrote:
Arakes wrote:
7. How does it work with resistances and speeds? The talent description says you "gain" them - so do you get a bonus or do the speeds of the monster you possess override your own? (if so, how does that interact with speed bonuses from, say, Yeek racials or from Solipsism-Clarity, and speed penalties like those you get at low Psi)

Ok, so as soon as you reach talent level 5 of Full Control - the monster speeds override your own, so you lose speed bonuses from Clarity, but you still suffer the speed penalty when your Psi reaches the Solipsism threshold. This sucks so hard...
Lesson learned: never level Full Control above effective talent level 4, doing so means you'll never get the extra monster talent slot at effective talent level 6, but I'd MUCH rather save two class points and keep my speed bonus from Clarity (and Quickened as I'm playing a Yeek Possessor) than get a measly extra talent slot.
This should be changed IMO, levelling up a talent should not make you weaker.

Edit: It's even worse than I thought... When you have Full Control at effective talent level 5, and you use Assume Form with full Psi meter, you get a speed penalty as soon as you lose ANY Psi (i.e. it's as if your Solipsism threshold is now 100%).
And when you get below your actual Solipsism threshold and start regenerating Psi, you not only lose the penalty but get your speed bonus from Clarity back.
I think this is a bug, this can't be the intended behaviour...
Also, either way, the talent description is very misleading - it says "gain speeds" for level 5 and "gain resistances" for level 3, but the former "gain" is actually "override" while the latter is truly a "gain" because you can keep your own resistances.

wow that's horrific
and i've made that mistake on my possessor game too

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<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:28 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:42 pm
Posts: 138
I really like the base idea of Possessor as an elaborate shapeshifter type character (kind of reminds me of the original NWN Shifter mod), but it sounds like there are some issues left to work out before I commit to a full run. I also noticed that at some levels the Possess skill loses damage as it goes up in level, so there seems to be a few issues left to work out with scaling (also, IIRC I think Psychic Wipe went from something like ~14 point Mind Save penalty to ~40 going from rank 1-2, which, if not broken, seems a bit excessive). It also, generally, seems like the cooldown for Possess is much too long & the range is aggravatingly short, but those are balance issues. (I feel like I might do a Possession-based Adventurer with Psychic Assault in the mix.)

Back to enjoying the incredible upgrades to Paradox Mage.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:56 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:28 am
Posts: 23
Another problem with Full Control (minor compared to the earlier mentioned HUGE problem) - when you get to effective talent level 4.5, you do not get a fifth talent slot although the talent description says you get one at level 4 (at effective talent level 5.2, you get the fifth slot). Edit: strike that, you do get a fifth talent slot at 4.5 - but for some strange reason, it doesn't show up until you possess a monster after spending the class point, wasn't like that for the first two bonus talent slots from Full Control.

And one tip for people who want to try out the class for the first time:
If you are currently possessing and about to die, but have at least one very resilient form left in the reserve, then dying in possessed form is usually preferable to reverting back to human form with the Assume Form talent. When you die while possessing, the cooldown of Assume Form is not triggered and you can immediately use it again - it costs you a turn and you are hit with a debuff (which can't be removed with a wild infusion) that reduces your damage significantly for 6 turns during which you also cannot use stairs. But in every dangerous situtation I was in so far as a Possessor, I'd much rather have that debuff and lose a turn than being forced to fight (or flee) in my squishy Yeek form for 18 turns until Assume Form is available again.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:01 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
Arakes wrote:
Another problem with Full Control (minor compared to the earlier mentioned HUGE problem) - when you get to effective talent level 4.5, you do not get a fifth talent slot although the talent description says you get one at level 4 (at effective talent level 5.2, you get the fifth slot). Edit: strike that, you do get a fifth talent slot at 4.5 - but for some strange reason, it doesn't show up until you possess a monster after spending the class point, wasn't like that for the first two bonus talent slots from Full Control.

And one tip for people who want to try out the class for the first time:
If you are currently possessing and about to die, but have at least one very resilient form left in the reserve, then dying in possessed form is usually preferable to reverting back to human form with the Assume Form talent. When you die while possessing, the cooldown of Assume Form is not triggered and you can immediately use it again - it costs you a turn and you are hit with a debuff (which can't be removed with a wild infusion) that reduces your damage significantly for 6 turns during which you also cannot use stairs. But in every dangerous situtation I was in so far as a Possessor, I'd much rather have that debuff and lose a turn than being forced to fight (or flee) in my squishy Yeek form for 18 turns until Assume Form is available again.

you're playing yeek? i'm so sorry for your loss, dealing with 600 maxhp in prides is bad enough and i'm a cornac

_________________
<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:42 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:28 am
Posts: 23
ster wrote:
you're playing yeek? i'm so sorry for your loss, dealing with 600 maxhp in prides is bad enough and i'm a cornac

For a yeek run, it's one of the best classes. I'm entering the Dark Crypt with 152 max HP and feel almost invincible because I have plenty of bodies in reserve with a huge HP pool and high blight resistance. I'm playing in normal though, on nightmare I probably wouldn't even have made it of the island of Rel as a Possessor.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:51 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 313
Location: From Russia with atchoum!
Snarvid wrote:
Back to enjoying the incredible upgrades to Paradox Mage.

You mean 1.5.0 changed PM?

Posesser is a mistery for me yet.

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English isn't my native language.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:58 am 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
GlassGo wrote:
Snarvid wrote:
Back to enjoying the incredible upgrades to Paradox Mage.

You mean 1.5.0 changed PM?

yes, it made the best PM build even better

_________________
<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 313
Location: From Russia with atchoum!
Solipsism - 1/5 or 5/5? Can't figure it.

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English isn't my native language.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 492
GlassGo wrote:
Solipsism - 1/5 or 5/5? Can't figure it.

3/0/0/0 or 3-5/1/5/0 depending on whether you like Full Control giving speed or not. 1/5 solipsism will gimp you outside of bodies (which you will occasionally want to do to clear medium risk things with no good bodies, like vaults or Slime Tunnels) so it's not recommended and you can just toss on a regen infusion or healing salve to restore psi if it's that big of a deal in a body.

_________________
<Shibari> You're full of shit
<darkgod #tome> ster is a troll
<Sheila> and ster, i do agree with you on most things game-related, but do try to not be such an ass!
<mex> your posts lead to people like me being abused and murdered


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:41 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:37 pm
Posts: 22
Micbran wrote:
Snarvid wrote:
Just a place to start the conversation as I try to wrap my head around this fascinating new class.
...
6. What happens if you go anti-magic and possess a magic user?


Haven't played enough possessor before I got bored to answer the other questions but I can answer this one. Possessing a magic user while antimagic would just make you unable to use any of their spell talents. So chances are, you probably don't want mage bodies cluttering up your storage if you're antimagic since they would be squishier than most bodies and do nothing good for you.

You can steal racials, yes? Maybe I'll play them again to steal Pride of the Orcs.

I love possessor as class and playing as antimagic, mages still useful to summon as psionic minions. And it's probably best using of them, since most of them is pretty fragile. Some vampires able to summon other undeads, which have their own period of life unlike psionic minions. So it's pretty profitable. Maybe it's bug, but sometimes i had lot of minions for a long time after their owner is gone.

Also, some vampires have one part of spells as skills and another part as steam-based skills (probably dlc do this), so even on antimage it's possible to use some skills here.


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