ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Everything about ToME
It is currently Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:10 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:08 am 
Offline
Spiderkin

Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:22 pm
Posts: 509
The title is pretty self-explanatory, I hope.

More specifically: What is the actual chance to save against an attack? I know mental save affects this but does the damage/phys/mind/spellpower of the attack/attacker have an effect? If your mental crit rate is 100%, does a succesful mental save against an attack always crit then? How good is this talent in general?

The description of this talent is very confusing in that you actually don't know at all what kind of reduction on damage you can expect to happen -if any. I did some testing with level 50 Ata killing solipsist on normal. Mental save 94, crit chance about 75, dismissal 5/5. The damage dismissed varied between 0 and well over 50 %. I'd say that on average, the dismissed damage was well over 10 % of the total damage which doesn't seem too bad. Maybe something in the range of 10-20 %.

Your experiences?

_________________
1.4.X Paradox mage guide for high level play


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:18 am 
Offline
Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5759
Basically, it rolls your mind save x the percentage versus the damage value.
If you win, the damage is divided by 2.
That 2 is where the crit happens, if you roll a crit, that 2 is multiplied by your crit modifier.

_________________
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:08 pm 
Offline
Spiderkin

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 481
translation: you generally have extremely high chance of dismissing damage lower than your saving throw and extremely low chance of dismissing damage higher than it. you rarely have saving throw of 60+ so it's mostly usable in the beginning of the game due to deminishing returns and agains damage over time stuff like poison. overall it's advised against putting 5/5 into this ability, there are better devensive/offensive options.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:03 pm 
Offline
Spiderkin

Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:22 pm
Posts: 509
Ah, thanks to both, the "what do crits do" and "what are the actual chances to dismiss damage, broadly speaking" were precisely the questions I needed answering.

I only tested this against West zigur/adventure patrols, didn't feel too comfortable pressing five in front of Linaniil (who is the only threatening thing left, I think) to see what happens :lol:.

Then this skill indeed looks pretty mediocre against things that matter and against things that don't matter, you wouldn't need this anyways and can live without it.

_________________
1.4.X Paradox mage guide for high level play


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:30 pm 
Offline
Retired Ninja

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 3756
Mankeli wrote:
Then this skill indeed looks pretty mediocre against things that matter and against things that don't matter, you wouldn't need this anyways and can live without it.


I think you're underestimating how lethal DOTs can be.

That said the skill could probably use a buff in the form of increasing the amount of your saves it uses. It was way overpowered when it first went live and I probably got a bit overzealous with the nerf bat.

_________________
Jack's Cheese and Bread Snack


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:42 pm 
Offline
Spiderkin

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 481
edge2054 wrote:
Mankeli wrote:
Then this skill indeed looks pretty mediocre against things that matter and against things that don't matter, you wouldn't need this anyways and can live without it.


I think you're underestimating how lethal DOTs can be.

That said the skill could probably use a buff in the form of increasing the amount of your saves it uses. It was way overpowered when it first went live and I probably got a bit overzealous with the nerf bat.

i think it would be more reasonable to make a saving throw agains opponent's mindpower and if succeed, reduce damage by 20-50%. making a save against damage itself feels very awkward and is barely useful against dot's.

btw who has designed solipsist? was it you edge or dg?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:53 pm 
Offline
Retired Ninja

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 3756
I did.

I don't see how that would really work. Wouldn't that be a flat 50% damage reduction against basically everything with crappy mindpower? (Which is a lot of things).

*edit* As to not working against DOTs, at 60 will and 60 cunning with 5/5 dismissal you reduce all damage that's less than 11 by 50% automatically and have a 50% chance to reduce damage that's 21 or less. This is with a mental save just from stat investments and no other increases.

I summoned a ghoul on a level fifty character on Dreadfell 1 and their disease inflicts 22 damage per turn. With a bit more mental save you could reduce that by 50% automatically.

_________________
Jack's Cheese and Bread Snack


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:03 pm 
Offline
Retired Ninja

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 3756
And apparently the crit multiplier is broken, so players with high crit are actually taking more damage from Dismissal. Not my fault on that one I swear.

_________________
Jack's Cheese and Bread Snack


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:09 pm 
Offline
Spiderkin

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 481
Well I thought you were temporarily retired when solipsist went out. If you're the solipsist's creator then I want to express my gratitude to you. I see solipsist as the new exemplary flagship of all classes, very unique because it has a lot of viable build directions and options due to variety of truly unique and synergetic skill trees. He is very fun to play and I think solipsist addition even forced rework of other somewhat boring classes that were no were close in terms of variety and uniqueness to it: sun paladin, brawler, now mindslayers which's no doubt for the best.

About dismissal. I really think dominating low-mindpower foes with by deminishing all their damage is very thematic and mechanically interesting. Of course amount of reduced damage should be about 15-25%, no more.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:29 pm 
Offline
Retired Ninja

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 3756
Thanks for the kind words about Solipsists. I still worked on a few things after they went out (a lot of ego stuff, no other classes) and of course spent some time rebalancing them.

I see what you're saying on reduction vs. low mindpower foes and it does make sense. My idea with the theme was bigger hits are harder to ignore. It's like if you're sleeping, a loud noise is more likely to wake you up.

Anyway I'll consider your idea and either go with that or tune the save percentage up a bit. When it first went live the percentage of your save it used was higher and it dismissed 100% damage. This let the class basically ignore all damage that was 10 points less than their mental save which was way overpowered.

_________________
Jack's Cheese and Bread Snack


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:37 pm 
Offline
Spiderkin

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 481
what I love about solipsists is their very complex and synergetic way of deminishing damage. you first convert some damage to psi, then reduce it by some % amount then you gain feedback from it which'll heal you then you have resonant field that further reduces it twice. I always play antimagic on solipsists so am shield comes into play as well and with dismissal you end up with a rather tanky class that does not have 4-digid damage shields as archmage does. numerous synergetic abilities are far more appealing to me than a single ability you rely on.

there's also an ability than may be not terribly powerful or gameplay-changing but that I love - dream prison. somehow trapping foes for as long as you maintain your psi feels awesome, much like fearscape, but that does not reserve 95% of your resource pool.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:42 am 
Offline
Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5759
I think the talent is great as is. Those weak attacks and DoT stuff drain your precious Psi!
Fixing the crit interaction would make it even better.

_________________
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:51 am 
Offline
Spiderkin

Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:22 pm
Posts: 509
Interesting discussion.

I like the general idea behind Suslik's dismissal tweaks. So I'm eagerly waiting what comes out of it!

I like Solipsist as a class too. IMO, it has the strongest and most interesting theme of all classes. Also there are build decisions to make. Although I'm sad to hear dismissal is bugged, but in TOME 4, many many things still are so I guess its not specifically a problem with Solipsists.

Suslik wrote:
you first convert some damage to psi, then reduce it by some % amount then you gain feedback from it which'll heal you then you have resonant field that further reduces it twice.

Twice?

HousePet wrote:
I think the talent is great as is. Those weak attacks and DoT stuff drain your precious Psi!
Fixing the crit interaction would make it even better.

I guess that depends on your definition of "great" :wink:. When I say great I think of Aegis shields, Bone shield, Damage smearing, Unstoppable, IA and spiked Absorption shields (btw, the new mindslayer looks like it has potential).

Solipsists' have very strong defenses compared to most classes but the reliable huge burst damage mitigation still seems...a bit lacking. Of course, not every class has to have archmage powerlevel defenses.

_________________
1.4.X Paradox mage guide for high level play


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:30 pm 
Offline
Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 5759
My definition of great isn't limited to just huge burst damage reduction. :P
Death by a thousand cut is still a death.

_________________
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:50 pm 
Offline
Spiderkin

Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:22 pm
Posts: 509
Sure is, but there is also a reason why Cauterize is considered one of the best prodigies for many classes :wink:.

_________________
1.4.X Paradox mage guide for high level play


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group