ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Everything about ToME
It is currently Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:27 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:00 am 
Offline
Reaper

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:21 am
Posts: 2257
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come


I've been playing with a Yeek Solipsist and thought I would post about my experiments, thoughts, and of course failures. It's been a time since I last really posted, since my professional life overtook my personal life with a vengeance last year!

So let's begin... where? At the beginning, of course, which means level 1!

Stats
STR7(10)
DEX8(10)
CON5(10)
MAG10(10)
WIL21(15)
CUN21(15)


Here I have assigned my starting allocation to bring up my Cunning from 18 to be level with my Willpower. There are probably a million different things I might have done, but this is my start.

So on to Class talents...

There are three groups of Talents that could be invested in.

  1. Damage Schools
  2. Smith & Forge Schools
  3. Sleep Schools

Damage Schools

Looking at the Distortion group shows a bunch of Talents that are very closely tied to each other, do not seem to have any overlap with other Schools of Mastery but nevertheless are very powerful because of the Distortion field that is generated. Along with this is the Psychic Assault school which is again a nice direct assault school.

Smith & Forge Schools

The Dream Smith and Dream Forge group also look interesting and can certainly deal a lot of damage but seem to me to be limited.

Sleep Schools

This leaves me with the final group which is the Sleep Schools. There are so many schools here that it is probably worth while investing in a build of this type. This is the group that my build will be focusing on. Please make no mistake, there are perfectly viable builds that use the direct assault and Dream Smith/Forge approaches, and you can have a lot of fun taking this approach - it is not for me for this build...

I don't intend to use anti-magic at this stage but since I don't have to deal with it yet, I can defer the actual decision until later.

At level 1 I have a problem, how do I deal damage - no damage means no kills and no experience gain. It means that at low levels I will be somewhat reliant on alternative means of damage. Examining the available schools shows I have Psychic Assault and Thought Forms both with a starting point in the lowest talent. Cool! I can deal damage and work in the background on my sleeps and slumbers.

I allocate points as follows, an extra point for Mind Sear and an extra point for Thought-form. Mind Sear I don't intend to raise again, unless necessary, but I will be looking at thought-form as being my main killing tool at least until mid-game. The plan here is to allocate 4 points for Thought-Form giving me the archer and warrior and perhaps allocate a point in Transcendent Thought-Form to beef them up a bit. The thought being here is that since I can only have 1 thought-form active at a time, having two types gives me options when one of them dies.


Class Talents
Psionic / Distortion1.30Psionic / Dream Smith1.30Psionic / Psychic Assault1.30
Distortion Bolt0/5Dream Smith's Hammer0/5Mind Sear2/5
Distortion Wave0/5Hammer Toss0/5Psychic Lobotomy0/5
Ravage0/5Dream Crusher0/5Synaptic Static0/5
Maelstrom0/5Forge Echoes0/5Sunder Mind0/5
Psionic / Slumber1.30Psionic / Solipsism1.30Psionic / Thought-Forms1.30
Slumber0/5Solipsism1/5Thought-Forms2/5
Restless Night0/5Balance0/5Transcendent Thought-Forms0/5
Sandman0/5Clarity0/5Over Mind0/5
Dreamscape0/5Dismissal0/5Thought-Form Unity0/5


As for the Generic Talents, I want to be able to heal, so Bio Feedback is the obvious candidate here and it gets a point.

The long term plan? In the racial list I want Quickened and Unity maxed out. I'm not interested in Dominant Will or Wayist. For the other schools I will be using the Dreaming school and the feedback schools - the rest I will ignore!

Generic Talents
Race / Yeek1.00Cunning / Survival1.00Psionic / Dreaming1.30
Dominant Will1/5Heightened Senses0/5Sleep1/5
Unity0/5Charm Mastery0/5Lucid Dreamer0/5
Quickened0/5Piercing Sight0/5Dream Walk0/5
Wayist0/5Evasion0/5Dream Prison0/5
Psionic / Mentalism1.30Psionic / Feedback1.30
Psychometry0/5Biofeedback1/5
Mental Shielding0/5Resonance Field0/5
Projection0/5Amplification0/5
Mind Link0/5Conversion0/5


Any comments, gratefully appreciated. Also my next post will be when I have achieved level 10.

_________________
Regards

Jon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:30 pm 
Offline
Archmage

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:09 pm
Posts: 322
This looks really interesting, and I love the way you've presented a lot of details in a clear and easy-to-read way. As someone who's been experimenting with direct-damage Yeek Solipsists (Distortion is great for chaining stuns and AOE), and ignoring the Sleep trees altogether, I look forward to learning about this build type from your experiences.

Good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:16 pm 
Offline
Reaper

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:21 am
Posts: 2257
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep.
W. C. Fields


Continuing this journey... I am now at level 10, actually I lie, really I am at a Level 11. My bad, I forgot to take notes when I went up at level 10. I have been playing for a little over an hour to get here. The Murghol, Hive Mother and Citizen X are all dead. My thought-form has excelled and I have never really been in trouble. So now I am contemplating where to go first... choices, choices.

Anyway, onto how the build has progressed...

By now my stat plan has borne fruition, My Willpower and Cunning are in the low 30's and my health and strength have improved. I can wear most armours that I need to, and from now on I will be looking to raise my Constitution since that affects my PSI loading. I will not be investing in armour or bow training, by the way.

Any variation in Stats arises because of the kit I have picked up in the course of my journey.

Stats
STR15(18)
DEX8(10)
CON12(14)
MAG10(10)
WIL33(26)
CUN36(26)


So on to Class talents...

I've maxed Solipsism and begun to feed Balance; I have raised Slumber and begun to invest in Restless Night. Damage is very low from these because of my low investment in Restless Night... The major breakthrough has been to invest a Category point in the Nightmare school and thus gain access to those talents. So now I have 2 forms of mass sleep both giving small amounts of damage - considering that I had 2 nests in the Hive tunnels having these mass sleeps was really useful as crowd control.

Class Talents
Psionic / Distortion1.30Psionic / Dream Smith1.30Psionic / Psychic Assault1.30
Distortion Bolt0/5Dream Smith's Hammer0/5Mind Sear2/5
Distortion Wave0/5Hammer Toss0/5Psychic Lobotomy0/5
Ravage0/5Dream Crusher0/5Synaptic Static0/5
Maelstrom0/5Forge Echoes0/5Sunder Mind0/5
Psionic / Slumber1.30Psionic / Solipsism1.30Psionic / Thought-Forms1.30
Slumber4/5Solipsism5/5Thought-Forms3/5
Restless Night1/5Balance1/5Transcendent Thought-Forms0/5
Sandman0/5Clarity0/5Over Mind0/5
Dreamscape0/5Dismissal0/5Thought-Form Unity0/5
Psionic / Nightmare1.30
Nightmare1/5
Inner Demons0/5
Waking Nightmare0/5
Night Terror0/5


As for the Generic Talents, Biofeedback has been maxed. I've started in on Unity and Sleep.

Generic Talents
Race / Yeek1.00Cunning / Survival1.00Psionic / Dreaming1.30
Dominant Will1/5Heightened Senses0/5Sleep3/5
Unity2/5Charm Mastery0/5Lucid Dreamer0/5
Quickened0/5Piercing Sight0/5Dream Walk0/5
Wayist0/5Evasion0/5Dream Prison0/5
Psionic / Mentalism1.30Psionic / Feedback1.30
Psychometry0/5Biofeedback5/5
Mental Shielding0/5Resonance Field0/5
Projection0/5Amplification0/5
Mind Link0/5Conversion0/5


Well, through 10th level the extremely vague plan I have seems to be bearing fruit! I always play on Rogue settings, so as I have not died yet, then I would say the development plan is working.

Any comments, gratefully appreciated. Also my next post will be when I have achieved level 20.

_________________
Regards

Jon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:28 am 
Offline
Low Yeek

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:15 am
Posts: 8
Hello,

A few tips for you:
1) Why max strength ? why wear heavy armor ? psi take double fatigue you would want to keep it as low as possible, plus solipsist have so many way to mitigate damages that you can easily tank without the need of an heavy armor (except maybe if you play nightmare/insane), you'd better max willpower as much as possible and dump the remains in con/cun.
2) Max solipsism is a bad idea, all your damages will go to your psi instead of being share between your psi and health, and when you are out of psi you'r just a sitting duck. 3 in solipsist is really enough.
3) You underestimate mind sear, it's one of the best beam in the game, if you max it you will love it even at end game, it does high damages in beam with a very low cd
4) why do you max biofeedback ? doesn't worth invest anything in it (except one point for unlock the next talent) imho

I will write a more comprehensive solipsist guide if i get time but can't promise yet ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:52 am 
Offline
Reaper

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:21 am
Posts: 2257
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
But what is all this fear of and opposition to Oblivion? What is the matter with the soft Darkness, the Dreamless Sleep?
James Thurber


Continuing this journey... I am now at level 20. And dithering about what category to spend my next category point in... Most probably I will buy a new rune/infusion slot. I have been playing for a little over 4.5 hours get here. I've done all the main dungeons (Trollmire, Korpul, Old Forest, Maze and Sandhole). Still not really troubled by things.

Anyway, onto how the build has progressed...

By now my stat plan has borne fruition, My Willpower and Cunning are in the 40's and my health and strength have improved. I am going to take my Cunning up to 50 and then from that time forward invest solely in Willpower and Constitution. I have stopped investing in Strength, it was a mistake, and from now on I will be looking to raise my Constitution

Any variation in Stats arises because of the kit I have picked up in the course of my journey.

Stats
STR15(18)
DEX8(10)
CON27(24)
MAG10(10)
WIL50(34)
CUN46(36)


So on to Class talents...

I've maxed Restless Night and grabbed one of each of the Solipsism talents. I have maxed Nightmare. Damage is improving... So the plan still holds, continue to invest in sleeps and max Solipsism all the way. I have also invested a point in Transcendent Thought-form which has upped my companion's power.

Class Talents
Psionic / Distortion1.30Psionic / Dream Smith1.30Psionic / Psychic Assault1.30
Distortion Bolt0/5Dream Smith's Hammer0/5Mind Sear2/5
Distortion Wave0/5Hammer Toss0/5Psychic Lobotomy0/5
Ravage0/5Dream Crusher0/5Synaptic Static0/5
Maelstrom0/5Forge Echoes0/5Sunder Mind0/5
Psionic / Slumber1.30Psionic / Solipsism1.30Psionic / Thought-Forms1.30
Slumber5/5Solipsism5/5Thought-Forms3/5
Restless Night5/5Balance1/5Transcendent Thought-Forms1/5
Sandman0/5Clarity1/5Over Mind0/5
Dreamscape0/5Dismissal1/5Thought-Form Unity0/5
Psionic / Nightmare1.30
Nightmare5/5
Inner Demons0/5
Waking Nightmare0/5
Night Terror0/5


As for the Generic Talents, Biofeedback has been maxed - the main reason is because with increased Willpower I will get back more than I lose, effectively becoming very difficult to kill. I've started in on Unity, and maxed Sleep and Quickened. I picked up a point in Piercing Sight from an escort quest.

Generic Talents
Race / Yeek1.00Cunning / Survival1.00Psionic / Dreaming1.30
Dominant Will1/5Heightened Senses0/5Sleep5/5
Unity3/5Charm Mastery0/5Lucid Dreamer0/5
Quickened5/5Piercing Sight1/5Dream Walk0/5
Wayist0/5Evasion0/5Dream Prison0/5
Psionic / Mentalism1.30Psionic / Feedback1.30
Psychometry0/5Biofeedback5/5
Mental Shielding0/5Resonance Field0/5
Projection0/5Amplification0/5
Mind Link0/5Conversion0/5


Abaddon has not died yet, and she is beginning to cause some damage from sleeping things so this is beginning to look quite promising. I still have to do Dreadfell and the Storm Tower...

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated! Keep them coming!

My next post will be when I have achieved level 30.

_________________
Regards

Jon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:59 am 
Offline
Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:03 pm
Posts: 717
Level 20 and you still haven't even spent a point on Inner Demons? That talent is crazy good against bosses.

As for Biofeedback: The trouble is, you often end up in fights were your Feedback gets maxed out and pretty much stays there. Damage you take at that point doesn't come back to heal you; it just hurts you. I think it's better to focus on the other Feedback skills (you especially want to have Conversion, which is a better heal than Biofeedback will ever be anyway) before working on the first one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:30 am 
Offline
Low Yeek

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:15 am
Posts: 8
Conversion is nice even with 1~2 points, you would also want to drop a few points in Resonance Field to survive damage bursts


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:11 pm 
Offline
Cornac

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:39 pm
Posts: 38
Mind sear is insanely good, I even invested extra cat point in that tree (probably another infusion slot was a better choice, but whatever ;)) and gathered all +mind equipment I could get. By the endgame it critted well over 1k. I also recommend meteoric strike prodigy to go with it if you can get it. In most cases it makes the opening shot the only one of the battle.

Also consider 1 point in Wayist. Those 3 summons make a decent distraction.

Dreamforge tree is surprisingly good, especially forge bellows talent is useful. It not only does decent damage, but also breaks LOS in most cases. And Dreamforge skill... you are hurting enemies by just standing there :).

http://te4.org/characters/9679/tome/279b8f8f-3f9c-4364-a288-fd445d29a1bc Here's my char if you're interested, although I'll be the first one to admit I had no idea what I was doing. Just maxed mind damage, mindpower and mental save anyway I could. It worked out well enough.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:31 pm 
Offline
Reaper

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:21 am
Posts: 2257
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;


Ironically I picked up an escort quest which gave me an extra point in Mind Sear.

Regretfully though Abaddon is dead. She died at the hands of a bunch of multi-coloured Drakes and Wyrms in the Elven Ruins.

The lesson here is that it was quite definitely YASD. I was playing when very tired and had a series of unfortunate events (shades of Lemony Snicket) and she died.

In hind-sight and looking back on her build, I proved to my satisfaction that the sleeps and slumbers are an extremely viable build however if you go this way make sure that your sleeps and slumbers invest in a pile of damage dealing as well so that your opponents dies easily. Something I did not do and so found the going hard, interesting yes, but hard.

My second build is working much better I've invested earlier in damage dealing via sleep and have spread my investment much wider (still nothing in the Forge stuff) and still only 2 points in Mind Sear. The real point here being that if your enemy wakes from sleep, they will be so weak that a 2 point Mind Sear actually suffices.

Anyway, thank you all so much for your feedback and comments.

I'll post about my other build shortly!

_________________
Regards

Jon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:58 pm 
Offline
Thalore

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:41 pm
Posts: 131
I'll note that later on you'll run into enemies completely immune to sleep, though it still works on the vast majority of foes. Things like bone giants and some other similar constructs, as well as storm giants and vampires. Damage helps deal with those enemies, and other tools do as well.

But my winning build ended up very different from yours. I invested minimally in the sleep stuff (1-pointing much of it, though I did 3/5 Lucid Dreamer--didn't go further due to the diminishing returns) and put 5/5 in Mind Sear. In the end, it was more of a nuke build than a sleep build so your mileage might vary. I only ever really used the Nightmare sleep, though I did fully 5/5 the whole Nightmare tree and can absolutely recommend it. I made significant use of the damage boost for attacking sleeping targets. Also, 5/5 Mind Sear is crazy--by the end, with +75% mind damage it was doing over 1.2K on a fairly low cooldown.

Like I said, your mileage might vary. Solipsists appear to have a wide variety of viable builds.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:01 am 
Offline
Low Yeek

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:45 am
Posts: 5
I was just randomly thinking (I just won with a yeek solipsist ten minutes ago): in addition to the suggestion often made to change Mind Sear from a 2 cooldown to a 3 cooldown, what if most of the area effects of Solipsists had a new "shape" of effect, unlike bolt, beam, or ball? How about "puff"? That is, you attempt to cast a ball-shaped effect (like sleep, with radius 2), but only those who are first in your line of sight get the effect, and anyone hidden behind is not affected. So it would be like blowing a cloud of sleeping dust at a group: everyone in the front row gets put to sleep, but those behind don't, and can still move up.

This sort of a new shape would be kind of interesting in general, tactically, but might be especially appropriate for solipsists. You'd need all the sleep trees as people moved past dozing enemies; first nightmare then sleep and finally pick anyone still coming with slumber.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:18 pm 
Offline
Thalore

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:29 am
Posts: 123
problem with sleep is
only nightmare does dmg and most importantly
direct dmg (specially if target is slept with sleep/nigthmare lvl 4 maxed and u being asleep) is MUCH MUCH faster, so many people in there 2nd or 3rd solipsist go directly for all sleep spells at lvl 1 and thats it.... ALso 1 for the boss to be asleep and u cast inner demons with no resistance is needed.

there should be some way to make sleep spells worth investing more than 1 point but to be honest so far, there isnt... and im saying this EVEN if duration was 1 turn to begin with!
I have an idea... how about resistance to sleep REDUCES duration even for less than a turn? Meaning if you want to sleep a boss u need to get some sleep spell maxed so he will be slept AT ALL ?

Also the mind sear nerf soon is supposed to change the whole offensive strategy... we'll see when it comes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Yeek Solipsist Build
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:25 am 
Offline
Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm
Posts: 2263
sofocles wrote:
problem with sleep is
only nightmare does dmg and most importantly
direct dmg (specially if target is slept with sleep/nigthmare lvl 4 maxed and u being asleep) is MUCH MUCH faster, so many people in there 2nd or 3rd solipsist go directly for all sleep spells at lvl 1 and thats it.... ALso 1 for the boss to be asleep and u cast inner demons with no resistance is needed.

there should be some way to make sleep spells worth investing more than 1 point but to be honest so far, there isnt... and im saying this EVEN if duration was 1 turn to begin with!
I have an idea... how about resistance to sleep REDUCES duration even for less than a turn? Meaning if you want to sleep a boss u need to get some sleep spell maxed so he will be slept AT ALL ?

Also the mind sear nerf soon is supposed to change the whole offensive strategy... we'll see when it comes.


ummmm....would have to disagree. I've won several times on roguelike using sleep trees mostly. see my guide as to how to do this, on the wiki.

i suggest for a sleep build:
sleep (generic): 5/5/1/0
slumber(class):4/1-2/5/0 or 4-5
nightmare: 5/5/1/5

nightmare is what really makes this uber-powerful.

i don't even use dreamsmith or distortion tree at all.

discharge is the really powerful tree, with incredible synergy with thoughtforms and feedback trees. I'm talking 10k+ dmg per turn, once you have high mindpower and high crits.

And i never skip a high peak boss.

_________________
MADNESS rocks


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group