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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:56 pm
Posts: 178
Note: This guide was created when 1.3 was released some sections or added some notes. However, I didn't do that for any further version because I haven't had the time to play TW lately. but before you leave; TW were barely changed since 1.3.1, the only memorable change is Warden's Call in fact, which might have been a buff on the skill. TLDR: This build should still work perfectly fine on 1.4.3
This guide is now also a Steam Community Guide! If you want a slightly reworked verions with embeded videos and screenshots then check it out! :) Here's the link: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=493308370

Welcome to my guide on one of the most complex and fun classes in ToME! I'm San0ix (Yusunanyuri on Twitch) and if you're wondering whether or not I'm qualified to write this guide, well I played through Nightmare (Andventure and Roguelike) and Insane (Adventure) and with these guys so I feel like I got a basic understanding of the class
My NM winner (Adventure): http://te4.org/characters/38290/tome/3c ... 3d402c53b0
My NM winner (Roguelike): http://te4.org/characters/38290/tome/e8 ... 8c845cb3fe
My first Insane winner (Skeleton): http://te4.org/characters/38290/tome/d2 ... 50e7a68032
My second Insane winner (Yeek): http://te4.org/characters/38290/tome/c9 ... d5eea0aab0 (yes, I know it doesn't say he's a winner, I won the game while that character was offline -.-)

Feedback is appreciated~ Should I make some segments longer? Should I add a segment I forgot?

Side note: this guide goes into great detail and some things I point out or find important only really matter when playing at high difficulties. A lot of the min/maxing I do is basically unecessary when playing Normal but may as well start playing better right from the beginning right? ;)



STRUCTURE

1. "Why would I want to play TW?"
2. PICKING YOUR RACE
3. STATS
4. INSCRIPTIONS
5.1 SUPER EARLY GAME (Pre lvl 4)
5.2 EARLY EARLY GAME (Pre lvl 8)
5.3 EARLY TO MID GAME (Pre lvl 22)
5.4 MID TO LATE GAME (Lvl 22 and onwards)
6. EQUIPMENT
7. PARADOX
8. COMBOS
9. PRODIGIES
10. USEFUL ITEMS AND KNOWLEDGE



1. "Why would I want to play TW?"

That's an easy one... Temporal Wardens are basically everything you've ever wanted from a ranged/melee hybrid class. They are really durable, extremly mobile, dish out very high amounts of damage and are super fun to play. But beware! They also take quite a lot of practise (at least for me) because they are quite complex (not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned).

"Can I also go for a full on melee/ranged build?"

No. Just don't do it. You'll be wasting huge amounts of synergy and damage since melee attacks lower the cooldowns of your ranged skills and vice versa. If you want to play a pure melee/ranged character you shouldn't be playing Temporal Warden in my opinion. The melee/ranged potential of a Temporal Warden doesn't decrease when also skilling the other, both INCREASE.



2. PICKING YOUR RACE

Human
Higher: Not the greatest (haven't tried them tho), the first two racials aren't really useful for TW, and other two don't do all that much. If you REALLY want to play Higher they are an OK choice but there are way way better races
Conarc: I'm also not convinced about these guys, even though a lot of people seem to play this combination. You don't really need the extra category point and you'll be floating in Generic Points without any Racials to skill. That being said, being able to unlock Fate Weaving is quite nice but that tree isn't THAT great, pretty good though.

Elf
Shalore: The best race for TW in terms of offensive power and utility. Grace of the Eternals will make you shoot more than two times a turn in the late game, Magic of the Eternals is just awesome in terms of DPT and Timeless has endless uses (from casting more spells to reducing detremential effects)
Thalore: Not as bad as they initally seem. You'll be skilling Wil later on so Wrath of the Woods will actually do something, having better saves is pretty nice for TWs since that way yxou can get rid of debuffs more easily, Guiardian of the Wood is just awesome in terms of resistances and you can shoot through the Treants you spawn with Nature's Pride
Doomelf: Not as good as they initally seem. Sure, the teleportation skill is kind of cool but it's cooldown is really high and the other racials aren't all that great. Doomelves just seem like worse Shalore to me [Note: as of 1.3.1 the Doomelf's teleport racial is much better on TW because it's more likely you can profit from two (three with Dimensional Shift) teleports. Other than that Doomelves are still pretty underwhelming though so I still wouldn't recommend them]

Halfling
Halfling: You don't max you Cun so Luck of the Little Folk won't be scaling as well, Insomitable is kind of unnecessary because you can already get rid of those pesky stuns etc. by teleporting, as of 1.3.1 that skill got a little better though.

Dwarf
Dwarf: Worse Thalore... just no

Yeek
Yeek: Actually way better than you'd think. Dominant Will is just amazing for so many reasons (like taking control of those pesky Worms that Walk or Zigurath Patrols), the Confusion and Silence Immunity is really useful, especially because being silenced basically means your death, the Global Speed increase is really good for your DPT and the Wayists are quite nice to tank some damage. My only problem with these guys is that you are kind of forced to get Temporal Hounds to increase you survivability, but that's fine bauce that way you can spawn so much stuff that you don't really have to worry about melee enemies anymore (they can't get to you, you can kill them through your hounds etc.)

Giant
Ogre: Because you want to max Dex second you'll have a lot of accuracy so Ogric Wrath will basically just give you +10% dmg, which is lower than what Shalore/Thalore give you. BUT being able to wield a two-handed weapon in your main hand is really good, especially for Blink Blade and Wind Blade, and you don't really care about Spellpower as TW so there is almost no drawback to that... You can also equip a shield in your bow set, which is quite awesome if you have enough Str. Scar-Scripted Flesh is pretty nice because you will be critting against tough enemies almost every to every secind turn. Writ Large basically let's you teleport with you runes more often, which is both fun and really useful, also, an extra inscription slot is REALLY useful and saved my NM/RL Ogre/Temporal run.

Undead
Ghoul: 80% Global speed is BAD, you don't really need con or str, Ghoulish Leap doesn't count as a teleport (as far as I know), you don't max Con so Retch won't scale all that well and Gnaw is bad. Just no
Skeleton: The best combination with TW in terms of defense. All your damage scales with Dex so increasing that is really nice (not a priority though), Bone Armour will be huge because you'll be maxing Dex, Resilient Bones is REALLY good because it basically makes you able to despell any debuff and Re-Assemble is also extremly useful

TL;DR: (note that I have yet to try a lot of these race combos)
God Tier: Shalore (offense and utility), Skeleton (defense)
Tier 1: Ogre (really nice mix of offense, defense and utility)
Tier 2: Yeek, Higher, Thalore, Halfling, Conarc
Tier 3: Dwarf, Ghoul



3. STATS

This is really straight forward. Mag > Dex > Con
You max Mag first because it makes some of your spells do slightly more dmg and increases you melee dmg by a large amount (through Strength of Purpose).
Dex gives you almost as much dmg as Mag so you want to max that second.
You max Con last to increase your survivability and get that sweet, sweet 15% all res from Thick Skin.
You could also max Wil last so that you don't fail all your spells constantly after having used some (since it'll decrease you effective Paradox, more about Paradox later) but you have other ways of decreasing your Paradox so it's actually unecessary (I didn't think of that with my first two TW winners).
Maxing Cun last might also be an option but I don't really recommend it because the survivability you get from Con is way more important and your damage output is already high enough to.



4. INSCRIPTIONS

As for you first three Inscriptions, you'll probably want a Shielding rune, a Regeneration infusion and a Phase Door/Teleportation rune. If you are a Skeleton, get a Heat Beam rune instead of the Regeneration infusion.
Phase Door VS Teleportation: This is pretty much up to personal preference. Even though they might seem very similar their usage is very different. You use Phase Door to get rid of debuffs and gut you All Res up, so it's more a positional and defensive tool while the Teleportation Rune is all about escaping nasty situations. I personally prefer Phase Doors because you basically never run into nasty situations as a TW (because they can control the fight so much) and even if you need to escape you still have other teleportation tools you can use. If you are a new player and aren't confident in your ability to judge an enemies strength I'd recommend you going for a Teleportation rune though.
Your forth and fifth inscription should be a controlled Phase Door rune and a Heroism infusion (Lightning rune if you are skeleton). If you have a controlled Phase Door you should consider replacing your Teleportation rune for a Phase Door rune since the controlled Phase Door is basically a way better escape tool. You might also consider running two controlled Phase Door instead of running a Phase Door/Teleportation rune. (If you are questioning the amount of teleportation runes I'm recommending check out my fight against the two Sorcerers on Insane... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FQ4ZXW8N8g )



5.1 SUPER EARLY GAME (Pre lvl 4)

Let's be frank, TWs suck before lvl 4, like, really, really badly. Prepare to restart many characters when playing anything above Normal difficulty

CLASS SKILLS
What you want to do is skill and abuse your Warp Mines until you are lvl 4. But Make sure you skill them in a way that males you able to remove all the points later. So when you spawn you put (IN THIS ORDER): one point into Warp Blade, Weapon Folding and Arrow Stitching and two points into Warp Mines. On level two you put another point into Warp Mines. THIS IS KIND OF IMPORTANT: If you started as a race with a forced starting area, don't skill any class skill at lvl 3, if you will have acess to a city at lvl 4 this doesn't concern you.
EDIT: Alternatively, you can just put a point into Combat Accuracy and play like you normally would, I don't know why I never figured that out >.<


As someone who has [has no] access to a city this is what your Class Skills should look like by lvl 3 (trees I did not list are not skilled at all):
Chronomancy / Blade Threading
1/0/0/0 [1/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Bow Threading
1/0/0/0 [1/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Temporal Guardian
0/0/0/0 [0/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Spacetime Folding
4/0/0/0 [3/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Speed Control
0/0/0/0 [0/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Temporal Combat
1/0/0/0 [1/0/0/0]


GENERIC SKILLS
Put one point into your racial, Precognition (one of the best scouting tools in the game!) and two points into Dimensional Step. At levels 2 and 3 just put another point into Dimensional Step (that skill is even better than the first Skeleton racial).

By lvl 3 your Generic Skills should look like this:
Racial
1/0/0/0
Chronomancy / Chronomancy
1/0/0/0
Chronomancy / Spacetime Weaving
4/0/0/0


GAMEPLAY
I really reccomend you watching my Twitch Hightlight about the Early Game of TW's ( http://www.twitch.tv/yusunanyuri/c/6414057 ) but if you really don't want to deal with my English, which is understandable, I'll try to explain it: use your Precognition as often as possible (while you are not fighting) to look where enemies are so that you don't run into a bunch of nasty mages or something and make the enemies run through your mines because that's the most damage you'll do at this point. Also, if you are playing a race that doesn't have a forced starting area "DO NOT ACCEPT THAT MAGES QUEST WHEN YOU SPAWN" it's not worth it, trust me. You'll be dying way too much and it's gonna be a frustating time. NO. FUN. And you are only missing out on an Artifact that's kind of OK.



5.2 EARLY EARLY GAME (Pre lvl 8)

FINALLY you are lvl 4, so now let's start playing actual TW

CLASS SKILLS

If you your race doesn't start in a forced starting area, go into a town, remove all the points you put into the Warp Mines and put one point into Blink Blade, Singularity Arrow and Guardian Unity and as many points into Strength of Purpose as possible (if you have some points left just put them into Weapon Folding or Invigorate, it doesn't really matter, just make sure you'll be able to get rid of the point you spent by using that one last and put it into Strength of Purpose as soon as you can skill that again).
If your race does start in a forced starting area, just put one point into Blink Blade (you four latest Class Points should be the three levels in Warp Mines and your one level in Blink Blade) and go with that build until you can go into town, then do what I explained above.
After that get Singularity Arrow to lvl 3/5 ASAP since it's your unly AoE in the early game and it let's you deal with enemies that have high defense because the AoE damage will hit no matter what. Other than that it doesn't really matter what you skill, you'll probably be able to max Strength of Purpose at that point and if you've still got some Class Points floating around put them into Guardian Unity (Once again, skill in a way so you can remove those skillpoints later)

This is how your Class Skills should look like by lvl 7[until you can enter a town, then what's not in brackets]:
Chronomancy / Blade Threading
1/1/0/0 [1/1/0/0]
Chronomancy / Bow Threading
1/3/0/0 [1/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Temporal Guardian
5/1/0/0 [1/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Spacetime Folding
0/0/0/0 [3/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Speed Control
0/0/0/0 [0/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Temporal Combat
1/0/0/0 [0/0/0/0]


GENERIC SKILLS

Get Dimensional Shift to lvl 4/5 ASAP. If you are Skeleton and really want at least one point into your bone shield, remove one point from you Dimensional Step and put it into Bone Armor instead. NEVER sacrifice a Generic Point that could be put into Dimensional Shift (as long as it's not 4/5) as that skill is super important for TW and is the main reason you are so durable. If you somehow have an extra Generic Point floating around putting a skillpoint into Foresight is pretty nice since the Defense bonus it gives you is pretty high and most enemies won't have that high accuracy in the early game. [Note: as of 1.3.1 Dimensional Shift isn't as broken anymore becuase it only affects one debuff at a time now. I still don't think that this changes the build but Dimensional Shift isn't as necessary anymore. You should still max it really quickly though.]

By lvl 7 your Generic Skills should look like this [as a skeleton]:
Racial
1/0/0/0 [1/1/0/0]
Chronomancy / Chronomancy
1/0/0/0 [1/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Spacetime Weaving
3/4/0/0 [2/4/0/0]


GAMEPLAY

Pretty straight forward... use Singularity Arrow to kill multiple enemies (note that it's damage goes up when you hit more enemies) or annoying snakes and use Blink Blade/Dimensional Shift to engage/disengage and remove nasty debuffs. Blink Blade is also really nice against single enemies as it almost one shots most of them. Keep on using Precognition to check your surrounding and evade nasty enemies if need be or spot a group of enemies that you can use Singularity Arrow against.



5.3 EARLY TO MID GAME (Pre lvl 22)

This is the point where you really start to have fun... you'll be blinking around all the time while dishing out respectable amounts of damage while not caring about those once annoying debuffs


CLASS SKILLS

At lvl 8 you want to skill Arrow Echoes, Blade Shear and Vigilance. Max Strength of Purpose ASAP if you haven't already. After that there aren't all that many BIG points for you to spend... get two points into Guardian Unity, Vigilance and Invigorate and three points into Blade Shear if you don't have anything more important to skill. The order in which you skill those is up to you and your run, just get what seems most important right now.
At lvl 10 you'll want to either grab Temporal Hounds (not really recommended unless you'll be maxing Wil last and are playing Yeek or Thalore), Threaded Combat or Stasis. I don't really think there is one definitive way to go here, get Threaded Combat if you like blinking around more and reducing you cooldowns, Stasis if you really want that sweet, sweet Time Shield and Temporal Hound if you want something to hide behind.
If you go Threaded Combat just put one point in every Skill as soon as it's available (I'll talk about Warden's Call later)
If you go Temporal Hounds get your Hounds to lvl 4/5, Command Hounds: Blink to 1/5 and Temporal Vigour to 4/5
If you go Stasis get Spacetime Stability to 1/5 and Time Shield to 5/5
Continue working on this outline (don't grab any of the lvl 12 spells, they aren't useful) until you get to lvl 20, then grab Threaded Combat if you haven't already (THIS TREE GETS OP AT LVL 22) or Stasis if you got Threaded Combat at lvl 10 and put points to it according to what I explained above.
If you ever have any extra Class Points floating around, get Guardian Unity up to lvl 4 and Vigilance up to lvl 3. You could also grab Warden's Focus if you really wanted to but that doesn't get super useful until lvl 22.

This is how your Class Skills should look like by lvl 21 [with Temporal Hounds]:
Chronomancy / Blade Threading
1/1/3/0 [1/1/3/0]
Chronomancy / Bow Threading
1/3/1/0 [1/3/1/0]
Chronomancy / Temporal Guardian
5/2/2/2 [5/2/1/0]
Chronomancy / Spacetime Folding
0/0/0/0 [0/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Speed Control
0/0/0/0 [0/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Temporal Combat
1/0/0/0 [1/0/0/0]
Chronomancy / Threaded Combat
1/1/1/0 [1/1/1/0]
(WITH ONE OF THE FOLLOWING)
Chronomancy / Temporal Hounds
4/1/4/0
Chronomancy / Stasis
1/5/0/0


GENERIC SKILLS

Get Dimensional Step and Shift up to lvl 4/5 if you haven't already. If you are playing Shalore max Magic of the Eternals.
If you are Skeleton basically max all your racials (Re-Assemble > Bone Shield > Resilient Bones > Skeleton) [SEMI IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT RE-ASSEMBLE: don't get the last point until later because that one makes you revive instantly the first time you die after having gotten it. This makes it so you can continue fighting instead of going into the death area, which is really nice late game when you are facing off really though enemies like the two Sorcerers]
Max Contingency as soon as you have invested some points into Time Shield or have aquired a nice Shielding Rune.
If you have some Generic Points left, skilling Precognition is really nice because it's range and duration goes way up. You could also try looking for some items that give you Con and get your Thick Skin up.
Also, See the Threads is a really nice "scouting" tool you can use to test the strength of certain enemies so you might want to try that out

By lvl 21 your Generic Skills should look like this:
DOENS'T REALLY MATTER AS LONG AS YOU HAVE (Bold charakters may be raised at will)
Chronomancy / Spacetime Weaving AT AT LEAST
4/4/0/0
Chronomancy / Chronomancy AT AT LEAST
1/0/0/0


GAMEPLAY

Your game plan doesn't really change all that much from here on out. Start fighting with you bow and use Singularity Arrow against multiple enemies and Arrow Echoes against tough enemies (that's you boss-killer skill). Always be aware of what's going on and teleport out using you bazillion teleportation skills if need be (note that the ranged version of Thread Walk doesn't need to hit an enemy to teleport you so it's basically a delayed teleport). Basically, teleports are your answer to everything... "In trouble?" Teleport, "Got debuffs on you?" Teleport, "Strong enemies get too close?" Teleport.
I'll talk about some basic combos later.



5.4 MID TO LATE GAME (Lvl 22 and onwards)

This is where your damage output gets kind of insane and you'll just be running berserk with almost nothing to stop you

CLASS SKILLS

Get 4/5 in Warden's Call ASAP. That skill is pretty redicilous right now because it's basically +60% all damage (plus 60% of you damage modifiers so more like +100% in the late game). Whenever you attack something a copy of yourself spawns at a random space and shoots at or attacks a random enemy with your bow or melee weapons and disapears again. Doesn't seem all that amazing at first but trust me, it's super good. Sometimes these copies even tank a hit or two which can be really useful. Once you got Warden's Call to 4/5 get Warden's Focus to 3/5 (as for almost any TW skill, points above 2/5 aren't REALLY necessary) and 4/5 into Weapon Manifold since both will synergize with Warden's Call really nicely. Other than that just kind of try to Min/Max whatever skill you like best. Note: Putting points into Blink Blade can be really useful because it's range will increase. Also, Blade Shear's Range will go up to 7 when you put 5/5 points into it. At this point you can also put 4/5 points into Blended Threads to maximize your cooldown reduction (note that this is most effective with Windblade).
You might also want to start skilling Speed Control now because you're going to cast a lot of spells and also have some set up spells that take a turn (Invigorate). Get 4/5 points into Time Dilation to maximze the duration. Also get 1/5 or 2/5 points into Time Stop, depending on the amount of set up spells you have (that take a turn)[Update: as of 1.3.1 the duration of that spell increases with your Paradox, meaning that you'll probably have to put a little more points into that]. Putting points into Arrow Echoes is also pretty useful since it will increase it's damage by a lot (from under 400% arrow damage to almost 600%)
Once your fights last a really long time (basically the two sorcerers fight only) you should invest some points into you Paradox managment skills so that you stop failing you casts constantly. Get 4/5 in Arrow Threading and Spacetime Stability for that.

At lvl 50 your TW's Class Skills could look somewhat like this:
Chronomancy / Blade Threading
1/5/3/0
Chronomancy / Bow Threading
1/3/5/3
Chronomancy / Temporal Guardian
5/4/4/4
Chronomancy / Spacetime Folding
0/0/0/0
Chronomancy / Speed Control
1/4/1/2
Chronomancy / Temporal Combat
1/1/4/0
Chronomancy / Threaded Combat
1/4/1/4
Chronomancy / Stasis
3/5/0/0
(OR IF YOU ARE YEEK OR THALORE AND MAX WIL LAST)
Chronomancy / Temporal Hounds
4/1/4/0



GENERIC SKILLS

Just put points into whatever is left to skill... there's probably not all that much left. Get 5/5 into Dimensional Shift and Step and maybe even skill Phase Pulse if there is nothing left (not that great but better than nothing)

At lvl 50 your TW's Generic Skills could look somewhat like this:
Skeleton
5/5/5/5
Chronomancy / Chronomancy
5/5/5/0
Chronomancy / Spacetime Weaving
5/5/0/0
Technique / Combat training
5/1/0/0/0


GAMEPLAY

As I said, nothing really changes. Keep on being flexible and don't hesitate to use your abilities.



6. EQUIPMENT
Try to go for a mixture of utility, defense and offense. Don't go ham on items that increase your damage and ignore anything else since you will be tanking some damage and be engaging in melee combat and stuff like that. As for damage types to increase, just focus on physical damage, the amount of temporal damage you dish out is neglectable. Also look out for items that give you a teleport ability, those are REALLY useful, especially because you can use them while you are silenced to get rid of being silenced. Also really, really nice are items that give you the out of phase effect (dmg reduction when teleporting etc.) as you will basically always have those up. Having a lot of those items made my Ogre Temporal Warden insanely tanky (I 77% all res which is insane)
A lot of people ask me about what weapons to use... it's really not all that complicated for TWs. Just get whatever deals the most damage. That usually means using a bow that has 143% attack speed as your ranged weapon and a one-handed weapon and a dagger as your melee weapons. Always look out for daggers that deal extra damage on hit (like +6 nature or something) since those effects don't get a penelty for being in the offhand which results in higher damage.



7. PARADOX

Paradox managment isn't all that important as TW. The only skill that scales with Spellpower and really matters is Time Shield. So once you start failing on your casts you should consider lowering your preferred Paradox (keep in mind that your preferred Paradox is the modified by your Willpower and sustains). In the early game you want your effective Paradox to be around 250, in the late game you can just set your preferred Paradox to 0 if you really want to (the spellpower component is a lot more important in the early game). Once you put some points into your Paradox managment skills (not super recommended until you are about to face the two sorcerers) you can set your preferred Paradox to something like 300.



8. COMBOS

Your standart Boss-killer-combo is the following:
Time Stop -> All set up skills (those that scale with spellpower last since your paradox will be increasing) -> (make your Time Stop finished) Arrow Echoes targeting Boss -> Warden's Focus -> Blink Blade -> Warp Blade -> Singularity Arrow (or Thread Walk to disengage) -> (at this point Arrow Echoes should be off Cooldown again so use that again)
Note: you can always use the ranged Thread Walk to get rid of debuffs while staying on top of an enemy

Your standart Mob-killer-combo is the following:
Singularity Arrow -> Thread Walk or Blink Blade -> Blade Shear -> Thread the Needle -> Ranged Attacks -> Singularity Arrow or Blade Shear (whatever is ready)
If you have Windblade you can also use this:
Singularity Arrow -> Blink Blade -> Windblade -> Singularity Arrow -> Blade Shear

For Yeeks a nice initiation:
Dimensional Step in range for Dominant Will -> Dominant Will (you'll want to grab either a Necromancer, Summoner or something that's really threatening to you like a corruptor) -> Haste -> Time Stop -> Invigorate -> Command Hounds: Blink on strongest/closest enemy) -> Wayist between you and enemies -> Boss-killer-combo probably



9. PRODIGIES
Your first Prodigy should either be Windblade or Temporal Form. Windblade offers insane AoE damage and colldown reduction on Bow Threading skills (keep in mind that you have to have you melee weapons out otherwise you bow will be used as a melee weapon) while Temporal Form increases your overalls DPT.
Your second Prodigy should either be Temporal Form or something that increases your survivability, Draconic Body/Will and Cauterize (saved my Insane run a couple of times) for example. (Keep in mind that as of 1.3.1 Draconic Will is really useful on Temporal Wardens because their ability to dispell negative effects isn't stupid anymore)
Also, here's why I don't like some of the "noobie trap" prodigies for TWs; keep in mind you can still pick these if you prefer them, I just don't think they are particularly strong

Arcane Might:
- Adds 50% Mag damage modifier on all your weapons, meaning they'll deal 50 more base damage (the number that's affected by your weapon power) if you have 100 Mag - This is not great as it doesn't increase your DPS by as much as you'd hope; it's gonna increase each hit's damage by about 75 or so, depending on your weapon power.
- The Physical Power increase: This is kinda neat because it adds 50% of your effective Spellpower (the number that is shown on your character sheet) to you effective Physical Power. This is pretty cool because it is not affected by diminishing returns. In effect, you're gonna increase each hit's damage by 50% of your effective Spellpower plus you're gonna have an easier time e.g. stunning foes. Let's be kinda generous and say you have 70 Spellpower, so that's another 35 damage.
- The Phys. Crit Chance increase: not gonna matter much because I don't think maxing Cun is that great, so you'll get another 10% phys. crit chance or so.
So in total this Prodigie is gonna increase your damage by about 110 per hit later on as well as increase your phys crit chance by 10%. Let's say on average you hit an enemy 4 times in one turn, that's an increase of about 440 damage a turn plus another 10% all damage from the extra crits: that's a pretty good increase, about 20% if your average damage per turn is 4k.
Now let's compare this to Temporal Form. That Prodigie is not gonna increase your damage by that much but it's pretty close because you can get a lot of +Temporal damage with this. You'll also get damage penetration and some immunities so it's all around really nice prodigie. In terms of Math, you effectively gain at least +15% all damage while in Temporal Form so you MIGHT actually be getting more damage from this later on. In actual math, Temporal Form gives you about 15% all damage (a little more than that really) so at 4k DPT you're dealing almost as much damage as you would with Arcane Might. You also gain a little more than 10% all damage penetration, so if your average enemy has a 30% temp. res., you'll be dealing another 3% damage (temp res is the important one because you get 20% temp pen on 50% of you damage). At this point you are almost at the damage you would achieve through Arcane Might, plus you're getting a few immunities, especially stun immunity is really nice. Since most fights won't be lasting 10 turns the cooldown part of Temporal Form isn't too much of a downside, this should only matter for the two sorceres and some REALLY beefy bosses.

Swift Hands:
- Only does one thing; make the game a very little bit more convinient for you. Thing is, TWs are designed in a way that makes it so you almost never have to swap weapons. As I talked about in my guide, you can always use Thread Walk to teleport; either hit an enemy with your melee weapons and get a random teleport or just shoot it wherever you wanna go. I can not imagine a situation in which I really wanted to swap weapons manually.

Through the Crowd::
- +30 on all saves is good and all but this should only give you about +5 to all effective saves if you are geared out correctly, since out of phase effects already give you a LOT of saves. And even then, Draconic Will is almost strictly better because you basically gain an infinite amount of all saves 1/3 of your turns. Also, given TW's incredible mobility, i don't think the instant-move is a worthwhile effect, it's more like a huge overkill




10. USEFUL ITEMS AND KNOWLEDGE

You can use the ranged Tread Walk as a delayed teleport by shooting it where you want to go (doesn't have to hit an enemy)
Blended Threads does more when you are attacking with your melee weapon since you'll be hitting enemies two times (you have two melee weapons) instead of one time with your bow. That means that you'll be using Singularity Arrow a lot. This might change if you have a bow with high Attack Speed though (you can attack three times per turn pretty often later on).
Wind Blade will trigger Blended Threads with every enemy it hits, meaning that you can easily profit from more Blended Threads levels once you got access to that Prodigy.
Always use Warden's Focus on the highest ranked enemy because you'll be taking less damage from any enemy with a rank below that. Keep in mind that the ranged Warden's Focus activates on the target it HITS, not the one you target.
Blink Blade does trigger Dimensional Shift twice... pretty good.
Warden's Call also activates any on-hit effects you have on you bow attack, like Weapon Folding and Weapon Manifold.
Blade Shear is really useful against those pesky Necromancers or any Rare mob really because you can insta-kill them with that spell if their HP ist under ~30%. Insta-killing Necromancer is a great way to reduce their effective HP since a lot of that comes from their ability to survive under 0 HP.
Precognition makes it so you can spot enemies from far away. Normally so far away that you have to move your camera a lot to see all of them. This is why it's really useful to lower your tile size (Game Options -> Graphic Mode) to 32x32 or at least 48x48 (you should be playing on 48x48 anyways though, even if you are not playing TW). You can also activate Procognition, rest and still see enemies as long as you don't take an action. There are no real applications for this but it saves you a very little amount of Paradox, which is nice. You can also just use Precognition before resting to get some vision basically for free.
I definitely recommend you hitting up the Training Room of the Fortress regularly because you wanna know the DPT of your bow and melee weapons. This is kind of important because the strength of these weapons drastically changes compared to each other over time. In the early game your melee weapons are usually more effecive, in the mid game they are basically the same and in the late game your bow is way better (if you have a high Attack Speed bow at least).



With this you should be able to dominate everything and anything as a TW :)
Quick plug: I also stream almost every day right here http://www.twitch.tv/yusunanyuri I'd appreciate it if you came and hung out :D (I am currently taking a break of this game but I'll revisit it in the near future)

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Last edited by San0ix on Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:06 pm, edited 31 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:03 pm 
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Wyrmic

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Great guide, but should note that begining as you advise only matter on level higher than Nightare.
Also I prefere to get See the Threads at lvl 12, just to be able to choose art from bosses.
_______

Also, I found that it shouldn't be exactly bladed weapon, just weapon in both hands, so with ogres it looks promising, like artefact staff (+training in Angolwen) + dagger.

Also, do you consider that Chronomancy / Fate Weaving that useless?
Webs of Fate looks cool, like 33% of displaced damage.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Cornac

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I assume haste doesn't stack with Grace, so no need for more than 1 point in it?

Also, would be helpful to post a quick reference.

E.g.,

Final build:

Blade Threading: 1/3-5/1-3/0-2
Bow Threading: 1/5/5/3-4
etc etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:46 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:56 pm
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Quote:
I assume haste doesn't stack with Grace, so no need for more than 1 point in it?

Also, would be helpful to post a quick reference.

E.g.,

Final build:

Blade Threading: 1/3-5/1-3/0-2
Bow Threading: 1/5/5/3-4
etc etc.


I actually need to test whether those stack... will update when I found that out EDIT: I don't have a Shalore TW alive right now... can anyone confirm those spells don't stack?
About quick reference... I was planning on doing that anyways :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:13 am 
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Wyrmic

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Actually, your guide takes into account the Dark Crypt?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:18 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:56 pm
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GlassGo wrote:
Also, I found that it shouldn't be exactly bladed weapon, just weapon in both hands, so with ogres it looks promising, like artefact staff (+training in Angolwen) + dagger.

Also, do you consider that Chronomancy / Fate Weaving that useless?
Webs of Fate looks cool, like 33% of displaced damage.


Staffs aren't as good as two-handed weapons most of the time because staffs only have a Mag modifier of about 80% while two-handed weapons have at least 120%

And I did consider Chronomancy / Fate Weaving with my first character but Webs of Fate is the only talent in that tree that's worth grabbing so I decided that Stasis is better.

GlassGo wrote:
Actually, your guide takes into account the Dark Crypt?


It does not. That dungeon isn't part of my regular route anymore so I don't really think about it anymore. It's not really worth the risk though if you REALLY want to clear it, do it after Dreadfell.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:24 am 
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Wyrmic

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Well, for me it's all about challenge, for me game without it feels like cheat.
Like it's hardest part, so..

San0ix wrote:
And I did consider Chronomancy / Fate Weaving with my first character but Webs of Fate is the only talent in that tree that's worth grabbing so I decided that Stasis is better.

Well, it's better of course, I mean Stasis-Fate Weaving instead of Stasis-Threaded Combat?
How mach damage I'll lose if not go for Threaded Combat?
Just want go pure melee for the sake of style. )

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:34 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:56 pm
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GlassGo wrote:
Well, for me it's all about challenge, for me game without it feels like cheat.
Like it's hardest part, so..

San0ix wrote:
And I did consider Chronomancy / Fate Weaving with my first character but Webs of Fate is the only talent in that tree that's worth grabbing so I decided that Stasis is better.

Well, it's better of course, I mean Stasis-Fate Weaving instead of Stasis-Threaded Combat?
How mach damage I'll lose if not go for Threaded Combat?
Just want go pure melee for the sake of style. )


Do NOT go full melee. I repeat DO NOT GO FULL MELEE. You'll be wasting huge amounts of damage because, as I said in my guide, Threaded Combat basically gives you +60% all damage (actually higher than that if you have damage modifiers yourself). If you want to play pure melee, you should really consider picking a different class.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:36 pm 
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Wyrmic

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San0ix wrote:
if you REALLY want to clear it, do it after Dreadfell.

Mobs are scaled up there, and I don't know how high.
E.g. if I went there ~27-28, mobs more dangerous, like seriously - I remember they hit me with runes for around 300-400 dmg.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:37 pm 
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Thalore

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Fate Weaving is actually an OK tree if you build around it.

E.g., pick a dwarf, max CON instead of WIL, pick Corrupted Shell (saves scales,with CON), hopefully a few levels of Chant of Fortitude from escorts, plus saves from equipment - I have such a character clearing the Prides on nightmare at the moment, and once he starts spinning fate, saves get so high it feels like Draconic WIll is on all the time. I considered unlocking Stasis for the shield, but the character is so tanky I eventually chose not to.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:10 pm 
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Cornac

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:33 am
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Any thoughts on how the 1.3.1 changes shake things up?

Also, why no points in breach? Is it just unnecessary? The 50% reduction in armor hardiness seems like it would be handy... (I am pretty new, playing 1 week now, haven't gotten a character past 30, so I don't really know, just asking why this wouldn't be good?)


Also curious about only 1 point in arrow echoes: seems to get strong damage boosts for more points? Is this just unnecessary? (Is your single target damage already crazy good enough that adding more here isn't needed?)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:15 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:56 pm
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Morikal wrote:
Any thoughts on how the 1.3.1 changes shake things up?

Also, why no points in breach? Is it just unnecessary? The 50% reduction in armor hardiness seems like it would be handy... (I am pretty new, playing 1 week now, haven't gotten a character past 30, so I don't really know, just asking why this wouldn't be good?)


1.3.1 does certainly make teleporting around a lot less good since you only get rid of one debuff instead of three now but other than that there are no really big changes (I think)
Breach never really seemed all that great to me since armor doesn't really do all that much later on and I'd much rather be casting other spells while keeping my Pradox low.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:32 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
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San0ix wrote:
1.3.1 does certainly make teleporting around a lot less good since you only get rid of one debuff instead of three now but other than that there are no really big changes (I think).

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!11
Leave at least two, not one!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Breach is good with Weapon Manifold. Seal Fate works really well with that build as well.

Blink Blade should trigger Dimensional Shift twice. If it's not that's a bug.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:51 pm 
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Wyrmic

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Actually changes are sagnificant.
Quote:
Shantiz no longer destroys friendly projectiles
Shantiz AoE no longer hits friendly targets

Yep...

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