ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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 Post subject: Re: 1.4.9 Doomed Guide
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:41 pm
Posts: 299
Number43 wrote:
Mordy wrote:
Though I wonder. What IF all the player summons inherited the player prodigies themselves? What would be OP/fun/broken? :D

What about then that cursed item curse thing that summons a huge number of terrors, and you had taken, say, the prodigy that drops meteors.

You'd die at the hands of your own pets. I know : I used inner demons on that demon lady in the cultist event and that's what happened.

 Post subject: Re: 1.4.9 Doomed Guide
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 15
Did nm pre 1.5 and 1.5.3 insane recently. If u played diablo 2 as necromancer you will love shadows. For 1st category i would always upgrade em. 4 instead of 3. They will do all job with rares/uniques/bosses while u smoke. Simply because umbraphage isnt reliable drop.

Good guide and relevant except 2/5 Gesture of Guarding. Dont remember exact numbers but in 1.5+ its about 10 before and 20 after psiblades. NM was with Advanced Shadowmancy, insane - One with Shadows. Both thalore and both werent very useful. One with Shadows 3rd skill used only once and 4th was only to decrease max hate by 40 (was careful 36-50lvl). Guess if you dont have sentry/treants Advanced Shadowmancy is better. Not even considering darkness - it causes lags.

For prodigy mental tyranny is god. Imagine you have maxed madness and alchemist gloves (5dmg sources property), 1 autoattack - enemy stunned+slowed+confused and have -80% mind res. It aslo works with AM shield manaburn dmg.

Items. I have a feeling that unseen force count every target for mnemonic. Could run it twice sometimes with 11 duration and 30CD. With crimson robe reproach becoming good dmg skill.

Be care with archers and gunners.

 Post subject: Re: 1.4.9 Doomed Guide
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 12
Does Shadow Senses allows you to always send every shadows with Shadow's Path ?

 Post subject: Re: 1.4.9 Doomed Guide
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:43 pm
Posts: 152
Yes. Relevant code:
local tg = {nolock=true, multiple=true}
local shadows = {}
local grids = nil
local targeted = false
if self:knowTalent(self.T_SHADOW_SENSES) then
   grids = core.fov.circle_grids(self.x, self.y, 10)
   grids = core.fov.circle_grids(self.x, self.y, 10, true)

 Post subject: Re: 1.4.9 Doomed Guide
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:36 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:04 pm
Posts: 21
won a 1.5.5 insane adventure run on which I didn't play very well--and this character had an extra prodigy point and 600k gold dumped on it by DarkGod, so... yeah. Mostly agree with the guide but some things I saw differently.

1. Shadow Senses is pretty useful in conjunction with Shadow's Path and Cursed Bolt. As the guy above asked, it does let you fire all of your shadows at once even if you don't have LOS to them. (They'll still fail to damage if they're >10 squares away.) Also it allows you to fire cursed bolts after you Shadow's Path some unique that's got a wall between you and him. Good way to hack down the life of a dangerous enemy without exposing yourself at all.

2. Shadow Decoy is fairly painless to sustain if you've got some max hate from items. It's a good safety blanket late; max hate does nothing for you past 100 and the way hate works means that you've always got a ton when you get a hate-on-crit item.

3. Did Hateful Whisper get revamped in 1.5? It's pretty friggin' good now. Damage appears identical to Agony with my endgame character, and while Agony has better range and cooldown, Whisper does all its damage immediately and will immediately hop to another enemy and possibly more. Early it's also a good source of hate; it'll pay for itself if the thing you whisper doesn't immediately die without passing the whisper on.

4. Feed Power scales better than it seems. At 1/5 you've changed the damage ratio by 22% in your favor. At 3/5 it's 35% in your favor. It's worth a couple more points.

5. I skipped the Ruined Earth combo because it seemed like overkill since the class has Feed Power and Merge. If you've reduced an opponent's damage by 63% (with 100% uptime!) and you can't take melee crits you should either be 1) fine or 2) running like hell because you're looking at several rare+ enemies.

6. Is the +crit multi from force of will new or just too obvious to mention? 5/5/5/5 in that category is 72 crit multi.

7. I was a masochist who ran deep in the cursed aura category and thought it worked out just fine. It's really hard for anything to get to you when the nightmare stuff starts spawning, and since you get a free point in everything and can add an extra two all you need is 3-4 pieces of Nightmare stuff to create wall after wall of night terrors. There were two issues: Nightmares would apply whispers to opponents and block me from dropping a huge one on their faces once they had a couple madness procs on them, and in High Peak it proc'd so much the screen was a uniform shade of purple mist.

8. Range Amplification Device was very rad. Since you can get away with low-fatigue armor on a Doomed and hate is very easy to get late, the drawback is insignificant and adding 3 range to Doomed skills is really, really nice, especially Reproach and Blast.

9. For whatever reason, auto-rest had a tendency to stay on well after I'd gotten back to full health even if the shadows weren't off clobbering folks. With the 6-cooldown you-get-all-your-shadows-back thing I'd prefer it if they weren't considered during auto-rest. For most of the game it was fairly tedious to figure out when I was done resting and start moving again, because just letting the game do its thing often resulted in a fight where I'd start with vanishingly little hate.

 Post subject: Re: 1.4.9 Doomed Guide
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:52 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:21 pm
Posts: 39
Got a yeek doomed on insane to the Master. Lost him to a ridiculous welcome party of the Master running at me almost immediately at the start and waking up 2-3 randbosses between me and my shadows teleporting around, including a paradox mage who teleported me into a stunlocking skeleton party among other things, along with a ton of rares in the process. A couple comments.

I tried out fears early a bit on a lark, was running 4/4 instill fear and heighten fears, and they worked pretty well on the things that weren't fear immune, which was unfortunately a lot of the enemies, including said paradox mage skeleton magus. Horrors are fear immune, which is really bad due to how many of them are dangerous, as well as plants, skeleton undeads, dreads, and some other things. A lot more undead were fearable than expected.

Paranoia caps out at 60% chance with a ton of mindpower/points, and each turn the enemy will do a mental save to half the chance of it going off. It's not useless against solo enemies, since it will force them to melee a shadow or another of your minions if you have them adjacent. Terrified also caps out at 50% for an action fail, and funny enough it looks like it can also cause the paranoid attack to fail, which can be counter productive.

The Distressed effect that reduces saves is not useless, though that is for a reason that is not at all obvious: brainlock. Cross-tier effects aren't amazingly well documented, but when I looked at the code I was a bit surprised, as the duration is determined by the following, line 329 of combat.lua:
return math.max(0, math.max(math.ceil(atk/20), 1) - math.max(math.ceil(def/20), 1))

So duration of the cross-tier is the difference between the "tier number", with save or power of 20 or less being tier 1, save or power of 21-40 tier 2, and so on. If you can beat the saves by more than one tier, then the brainlock will last even longer than 1 turn, and given that punishments have a 25% chance of cross-tier on damage, that can be a big deal to help lock down enemies on doomed. Distressed scales up to the 30s all save reduction at endgame mindpower, so if you land that on something with saves close enough to lower the tier you'll get an extra turn of brainlock, or even open up the chance for brainlocking if you were the same tier prior. Ironically, due to scaling that's harder to do on something with high enough saves that you aren't guaranteed to land the fear, though you'll get a higher chance to land debuffs afterwards. I don't know the save values tough stuff gets to typically offhand, but the EoR end boss on nightmare had saves in the mid 80s, which might be close enough to reduce the tier even with rescaling. (Seriously don't run fears on endgame EoR, though, way too many horrors).

With the stacking damage reduction and various other doomed debuffing you can stay in LOS long enough for heightened fears to work and pile on the fears, so I thought overall it was worth the points.

I didn't bother with tyrant, though, it did look like garbage. The "mindpower for save check" passive is pretty low at high levels, and the fears look like they pollute your pool of fears more than help. You're right that haunted can't crit, code explicitly said so, so not sure what it's good for beyond some extra madness checks. Maybe if you have a bunch of paranoid enemies in a pile refreshing on each other you can get lots of extra madnesses? But it's a lot harder to set up the paranoid pile if instill fear only has 1/6 chance of bringing up paranoid.

I think you also underrate hateful whisper a bit, the damage really isn't that much less than reproach, and higher than willful strike. According to tometips, at max points and 100 mindpower hateful whisper does 426 base damage, reproach 456 base damage on the first hit, agony 665 base damage over the duration, and willful strike and stone about 396 base damage. The mechanics on it are a bit weird, and you are right that you don't want to put points into the skill if you are running Malslek the Accursed's Hat. You can only cast it on enemies that don't have the debuff, then the debuff will do the check every turn whether to spread to an enemy in range that doesn't have the debuff, and the initial debuff from the cast or proc is the only one with guaranteed spreads. Sort of like a lazy, debuff based chain lightning. You can hit the same target multiple times if it's debuff wears off sooner than a neighbor's and the neighbor spreads back to them, though that is very unreliable in practice. Malslek's hat will make the base skill close to worthless since it will be spreading level 2 whisper debuffs all over the place on it's own, and lock out higher level player cast versions from spreading.

Final point, for prodigies the range amplification drone really seems like it was made for this class, and deserves mention. I may not be the best salesman since stunlock is what killed my doomed, but it really makes a huge difference when you have so many piddly range skills increased to at least range 6. It also works on ruined earth, so at max level the effect has an AOE of the full range 10 line of sight.

Overall though, playing my yeek doomed on insane is about the slowest I've ever played tome, it's not a straighforward class if you want to do it right.

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