ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:15 am 
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Yeek

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:33 pm
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I write down this guide because there is no guide up to date for sun paladin and the outdated guide doesn't cover one of most important feature of the sun paladin.
With a sun paladin i did my first win with some ideas, whih i want to suggest here.

If you play a sun paladin you have versatile and defensive hero which doesn't have to fear much foes. You are fast if necessary, hard to kill, mighty in melee and non-melee range and doesn't even fear anti-magical abilities.
On the other hand you doesn't have many options again a mob. But mostly you should be capable to kill them one by one while the other only scratching you.

Tactical overview:
Melee:
You have first to choose between shield or two-handed. Imho shields are better because these makes it easier to survive. You can block, but more important is the bonus on Armor and more resistances. Nevertheless whatever you choose you get some mighty non-magical abilities which even works when you are silenced. And even when non-silenced: You need some melee options.

Non-Melee:
One of the great advantages of a sun paladin is the ability to work with non-melee enemies as a melee. For that you have three very different options:
  • Rush. Like most other melee classes a sun paladin can rush against his foes. This talent is worth to unlock the Combat Techniques tree. Nevertheless there are better options.
  • Wave of power. A great ability! It works like a ranged attack. You can attack every enemy in sight and do 150% weapon damage. This count as a physical melee attack. This will be your bread and butter talent because even if you don't have to fear melee range, it is better to kill enemies from afar than let them attack near you.
  • Another great attack option is Path of the sun. You can make a path, go without time loss to your enemy, attack him and flee away after. Nevertheless Path of the sun gives you much more options so you shouldn't in general use it only for attacking.

Defensive:
Beside runes and infusions you have another potent ability for escaping. Path of sun gives you a path you can use to get away from your enemy. It is more precise than a controlled phase door. But you have to use it in time because it takes a turn. But since the path continues some turns you can use it before your attack, than attack your foe and fast run away. You can even sneak around a corner: make a path, go until you see around the corner and run back. No enemy can react because it doesn't take any time.
Further you got your great Celestial/Light tree. Here you have all you want: Healing, Damage shielding and status healing. Providence is one of the best skills in game! You lose one negative status effect per turn!
You got your Chants where the best are Fortitude and Resistance. With Fortitude your saves are nearly high enough until midgame and with Chant of Resistance you get siply less damage. Both is great.
And you have Thick skin and Armour training. Yes, you want to have as much armaour as you can get! And 15% resistance again all is still great. (It will be more with Chant of Resistance)
But the most important defensive feature of a sun paladin is Second Life. If your life falls below 0 you will be healed. It is like Blood of life, but you can use it again and again. There is only a CD, so you have to be carefully for some rounds after it has been triggered. On the other hand you will get this ability and for a long time it won't be used. Don't be angry. When the time comes, you need it, you will be happy to have it!

Attributes
You want to max strength to get damage.
After strength you need magic. There are several abilities which scales with magic.
As a sun paladin you are defensive enough. You don't need to max constitution. But on the other hand the other attributes aren't really important too. Take it after magic.
Your 4th talent should be dexterity. You can boost your crit chance better with dexterity than with cunning.

Skillset
Technique / Two-handed assault (Only if you use two-handed weapons)
You choose Two-handed assault if you want to do much damage. But that could be some kind of overkill. Even with shields you will be able to one-hit most of your enemies. Nevertheless you get some abilities to kill more than one foe with an attack. Whats more wave of power will be stronger with two-handed weapons than with shields.

Stunning blow (3-5/5)
More damage, stuns your enemy. Quite useful.

Fealess cleave(5/5)
Imho death dance is better. But without shields you want to get some attacks against mobs.

Death dance(5/5)
Best ability against mobs.

Execution(0-5/5)
This helps you killing foes you just injured. But if you have injured you enemy you can kill him. But you should be able to one-hit most of your enemies. So you don't need this talent.

Technique / Shield offense (Only if you use shield)
With shields you get more armour and mostly slightly more resistances. Nevertheless even attacks with shields are powerful enough to kill most of your enemies with only one hit.

Shield pummel(3-5/5)
nice melee attack which stuns your foes.

Riposte(1/5)
Some kind of useful if you use blocking frequently. But since we raise dexterity it scales very bad. Late game it can be set to 5/5 when points left.

Shield slam(1-5/5)
Damage and block in one turn. Useful if you use block frequently.

Assault(5/5)
This is the hardest attack with shields. If it hits one time, it hits with additional 2 crits. You want to enhance your crit bonus ;) This is your strongest shield attack!


(This guide will be enhanced later)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:27 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:03 pm
Posts: 892
So... Actual Sun Paladin guide? I just got them unlocked, so it'd be nice to have a good idea of what I'm going into, especially what race choices are good or not.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:56 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:34 am
Posts: 23
I really don't understand why you undervalue Riposte in your guide. That skill is what makes Shield damn near OP.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:28 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:56 am
Posts: 645
Tigerle wrote:
Attributes
You want to max strength to get damage.
After strength you need magic. There are several abilities which scales with magic.
As a sun paladin you are defensive enough. You don't need to max constitution. But on the other hand the other attributes aren't really important too. Take it after magic.
Your 4th talent should be dexterity. You can boost your crit chance better with dexterity than with cunning.


Thanks for taking the time to write up a guide. I'd like to point out a correction: Dexterity does not raise crit chance, it raises "shrug off criticals chance".

CUN will raise your crit chance and DEX will lower the chance that criticals are scored on you. I rate both higher than the amount of hit points that CON offers.

MAG vs STR is probably a matter of play style, but I like to boost magic early as I find the spell trees offer a lot of utility. I'll put points in both so that I can wear massive armor and use higher tier weapons though.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:44 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:28 pm
Posts: 393
Marson wrote:
Tigerle wrote:
Attributes
You want to max strength to get damage.
After strength you need magic. There are several abilities which scales with magic.




MAG vs STR is probably a matter of play style, but I like to boost magic early as I find the spell trees offer a lot of utility. I'll put points in both so that I can wear massive armor and use higher tier weapons though.

Agreed. Most of the Sun Paladin's class trees, iirc, are unlocked with mag. I'd prioritize getting enough mag to be able to acquire those skills. Neither stat should be too hard to boost with the points from leveling + gear, especially since you only really need 2 stats (unlike Arcane Blades *shudder*)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:14 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:38 pm
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Marson wrote:
CUN will raise your crit chance and DEX will lower the chance that criticals are scored on you. I rate both higher than the amount of hit points that CON offers.

With Precise Strikes dex will raise crit chance, I think faster than cun. It also raises crit chance on ripostes. If you're willing to accept the 10% attack speed penalty for Precise Strikes, dex does almost everything. It does accuracy and crit prevention natively. It does crit chance and even more accuracy off Precise Strikes. It does damage by turning overflow accuracy into crit mult with a sword or straight damage bonus with a mace. The only things dex can't do for you are saves, HP, spellpower, and spell crit.

I'd build mag/dex enough strength to meet prerequisites and then cunning until 100% spell crit, and then if there are any stat points left go back to boosting strength again. That should use up all of your stat points, but if it somehow doesn't then maybe I'd consider con if I had a lot of con scaling stuff from warrior escorts, but will is probably better because stamina running out is a nuisance but if HP running out happens at high level it's at those difficulties where you get fewer stat points on level up and have no chance of picking a fifth priority stat.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:30 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:56 am
Posts: 645
Atarlost wrote:
With Precise Strikes dex will raise crit chance, I think faster than cun.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. I overlooked the PS impact.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:49 pm
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There are some good tips here, thanks! I've been trying to get a Sun Paladin off the ground in Nightmare Roguelike with limited success. My best run to date ended in the early 20's trying to rescue Miranda before I was really ready for that brutally small dungeon. One item ability I highly recommend looking out for is "slow on melee hit." Before getting blasted from a room full of blood mages, I was dropping targets' global speed to 52% (two items' combined abilities) and never had any issues with tough single targets or bosses. Not sure how rare that ability is, but it's well worth it.

Now to my question: this class seems rather weak in the mid game, while there are still a lot of abilities unpicked. Does anyone have a suggestion on sequencing of skills? The list of (x/5) for individual skills is quite useful, but there is a lot of variation on how to get there and survive. Being used to Archmages with 2-3 each of shields, heals, and emergency escapes through most of the game, survivability here has been a big challenge for me. Relying on the passive heals and defenses of all the sustains with really only one active shield, one heal, and one escape (teleport rune, sometimes more dangerous than helpful) just didn't cut it.


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