ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:34 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:40 am
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This is going to be a rudimentary guide to Summoners for people who know nothing about how the class works in ToME, to help you start out and get a feel for the class.


Introduction
Summoners, as their name should make very clear, are based around the creation of allies to do what they deign themselves too important to do, gutting humans, eviscerating bears, crushing trolls as well as taking maces, knives, and spell blasts to the face and other sensitive areas. They play very cautiously and NEVER enter into direct combat willingly, always creating and maintaining a solid living wall of terror and pain between yourself and enemies. You can summon X maximum units at anyone time where X is 10% of your cunning. 1 unit at 10 cunning, 10 at 100.

Your primary starts are Willpower, Cunning, and Constitution. Focus on getting Cunning to 30 to be able to summon a few minions before you are stopped, then concentrate on Willpower > Cunning > Constitution, if you find some health items and are feeling comfortable you can largely ignore health until willpower is capped. Ignore strength (unless you absolutely must get it for an item), dexterity and magic completely

Whenever looking for equipment early on cunning and willpower to get your summoner off the ground and summon more creatures as soon as possible. For the whole game stay with light armor, and focus on +physical damage and status debuff (stun/freeze, confuse, pin, knockback) resistance, your pets inherit these stats from you. They inherit NO elemental resistances, and as you are going to be facing direct fire as rarely as possible, you should not focus heavily on it (that means Don't aim for the maximum 70, aim for 30 in the main ones, arcane fire lightning and cold) get some decent saves, but they are of secondary importance to other effects. If you find Garkul's Helm, wear it and love it.

When approaching enemies your first action should almost always be to summon a creature at it. The minion you create Depends on what kind of enemy it is, generally you can't go wrong with Drakes and Warhounds, for anything those two can't deal with you will have to look at the enemy and determine how best to defeat it, luminous horrors for example, you will want to send your tree hard hitting melee minions to make extremely short work of them, and for rooms full of spaced out enemies the Ritch Flamespitter is always a good choice, in narrow corridors you would want your Minotaur backed up by the hound for maximum damage per turn, with the Drake behind them. Once you get to summoning these beasts you will quickly figure out when and where to apply each one (It was the drake, with the drakelings, in every room in the house)

As a summoner you make extensive use of the Resource Equilibrium instead of mana, stamina or others. Equilibrium begins at 0 and every spell cast increases it, there is no maximum amount (that I am aware of) but as your equilibrium goes higher there is a greater and greater chance of spells failing. This can catastrophic as missing turns when you need the most can and will lead to your death. Fortunately summoners have several fantastic ways of dealing with this problem, and is almost never a problem except on the toughest and longest of fights.


Race Selection

Higher - Overseer of Nations is about the only interesting talent highers get, the rest of it is superfluous to a summoner. 2/5
Cornac - Boring. Boring. Boring. You do not need, and will not find a good use for the category point. 2/5
Thalore - The blight immunity will not carry over to your pets, the damage passive may work well with summons, but have never tried it, but then again you are an elf, so there is the whole "communing with nature" roleplay aspect of it. Minus points for being an elf -2/5
Shalore - A poor choice, racials do not benefit a summoner hugely, but then again you are an elf, so there is the whole "communing with nature" roleplay aspect of it. Minus points for being an elf -2/5
Halfling - Racials that will not mix well with a summoner who stands way in the back, not recommended, there are better alternatives. 3/5
Dwarf As with all things dwarf, this is a competent combination and a great choice for beginners 4/5 (for beginners 5/5)
Yeek Your pathetic health is offset by never being attacked, your high willpower means dominate will almost always succeed, the confusion resistance is great, global speed is, as always, the most valuable stat in the game, and the wayists you can summon are not limited by the summoned unit cap which can help absorb a few hits and do some additional damage 5/5
Ghoul - It is impossible for undead to currently select wilder classes, though if at some point it were made possible (and assuming their inability to side with zigur still stands) ghouls would make poor summoners, but as ghoul classes go they would be among the better class choices certainly. 1/5 from a Summoner Perspective, 5/5 from a Ghoul Perspective.
Skeleton - As above, though skeletons would make awful summoners, none of their racials help out in any way and they have the largest exp penalty in the game. A waste of both race and class. 1/5


Class Talents

Wild-Gift / Summoning (Melee)
War Hound - 2/5 at level 1, 5/5 after the Ritch Flamespitter. A sturdy and damaging summon, it has an amazing area effect when combined with Grand Arrival.
Jelly - 1/5 Not very useful, can be used when your other summons die and are on cooldown.
Minotaur - 1/5 early, 5/5 after Fire Drake is maxed. A very strong melee attack and that's about it. Works great in concert with the hound, and is part of your melee triumvirate for dealing with enemies your ranged minions cannot.
Stone Golem - 1/5 early, 5/5 after Minotaur is maxed. Another simple heavy hitter, and well worth the points later on.

Wild-Gift / Summoning (Distance)
Ritch Flamespitter 5/5 As soon as possible, an amazing creature early on, and continues to be a dazzling force into the late game. Extremely vulnerable early game, do not create it next to enemies before you are level 10. (Press your Ritch hotkey then 5 on the keypad and enter, it will create it right next to you)
Hydra - 1/5 Worse than useless, avoid like the plague
Rimebark - 1/5Worthless, ignore completely.
Fire Drake - 5/5 Your bread and butter as a summoner, it has absolutely incredible area attacks and is no slouch in melee either. Combined with Grand Arrival he starts showing up with drakelings to spread the chaos and distract the enemy. This will max out your unit limit very quickly, if you need or want to use other summons first then Fire Drake you can temporarily exceed your unit cap, but cannot summon ANYTHING else until you are below it.

Wild-Gift / Summoning (Utility)
Turtle - 1/5 Can heal for a huge amount when used with Grand Arrival. Not useful on its own.
Spider - 1/5 Not terribly interesting, your other minions are more direct, and when it comes down to it there is not a lot of use in having a creature that can disable enemies when all you tell them to do is "Attack and never retreat!"
Frantic Summoning - 5/5 A late game spell, do not invest any point into this until you can summon 4 maximum level minions.
Summon Control - 1/5 A useful tool for opening certain doors throughout the game but not worth more than a single point.

Technique / Combat Techniques - Worthless, ignore completely.
Technique / Combat Veteran - Worthless, ignore completely.

Wild-Gift / Summoning (Augmentation) - Third Category Point
Rage - 1/5 Worthless, ignore completely.
Detonate - 1/5 to get to resilience, 5/5 later. Turns your minions into bombs, never found a use for it but it might be handy to have in a rough spot, and summoners are drowning in Class Points.
Resilience - 5/5 Makes your pets last a great deal longer as well as making them more robust, it is not critical early game but is nice to have going into the east.
Phase Summon - 1/5 A nice spell to have at any point of the game, but unnecessary as long as you can summon creatures next to you, which lets you move them between yourself and an enemy even if you are pinned. Can be used to get you out of some tough jams, but you can avoid ever getting into them by playing cautiously.

Wild-Gift / Summoning (Advanced) - First Category Point
Master Summoner - 1/5 Early, 5/5 after completing Grand Arrival.
Grand Arrival - 5/5 As soon as you get the levels. If you read the description for this ability you will see why changes so much. It turns the war hound from a mediocre single target damage dealing into a huge physical armor debuff (it isn't 10-20%, it is closer to 60-75% late game, which is HUGE) as well as granting you an additional three sponges to the drake. Which can turn the tide of any battle.
Nature's Cycle - 0/5 Don't waste your breath unless you desperately want to play with wild summons or you are drowning in Class Points (which will happen)
Wild Summon - 0/5 Sounds like a fun ability that adds a level of depth to the summoner, but by the time you can get it, your summons will already be all over the map, and any abilities they get are at best superficial. If you really love minotaurs it may be worth it for the charge, but the rest of them are forgettable.

Generic Talents

Technique / Combat Training
Thick Skin - 5/5 When you can. Not crucially important to get this early on.
Armour Training 1/5 When you find a item that requires it, don't spend any stat points on it, wear some things to get you to 16.
Combat Accuracy - Ignore
Weapons Mastery - Ignore
Dagger Mastery - Ignore

Cunning /Survival - Ignore completely

Wild-Gift / Call of the Wild

Meditation - 1/5 Use this ability ONLY when you have high equilibrium in the middle of a fight, have several summons out and so can wait a few turns to make it go down. The reason for this is that it halves your damage, which halves your minions damage. A massive disadvantage. If you want to try to be more advanced use this ability at the END of every engagement, and turn it off when you next meet an enemy before you summon anything. But is not required.
Nature's Touch - 1/5 A competent heal that can be used on escorts to keep them alive, not worth more points, but if you can get them from escorts go right ahead.
Earth's Eyes - 1/5 This is why you may want to have Meditation on between battles, you can use this ability to map out areas and find hidden sections.
Natures Balance 5/5 A great ability once you have enough summons to be able to reset 4-5, can let you summon a whole plethora of minions to overwhelm even the strongest of foes.

ZIGUR ALIGNED TREES

Not every summoner has to go AM, and it is perfectly possible to win without it, but they get almost no benefit from runes; they have their own phase door (Phase Summon), they have no desire to do damage themselves (all attack runes are out), do not need mana regeneration, shielding is unnecessary if you are not taking damage, and teleport while always nice, is frankly not needed when you can create an army on demand. I strongly recommend all summoners DO go the Zigur route as it provides several incredible benefits that outweigh the cost.

Wild-Gift / Antimagic
Resolve - 1/5 to 5/5 based on personal preference and amount of free generics. Even at 1/5 this ability is incredible and can severely limit the amount of damage any spellcasters that break through or ignore your summons, can do.
Aura of Silence - 1/5 Not that useful as you never want to be near to anything that can cast in the first place.
Antimagic Shield - 5/5 This can turn whole swathes of enemies into a walk in the park, which is currently being set on fire by 9 Pyromancers. But you don't care because the flowers just smell so nice. Its synergy with the upcoming talents more than makes up for the small additions to your equilibrium.
Manaclash - 1/5 to 5/5 based on amount of free generics. This is a great little spell that can make a caster sit down and weep as he is turned inside out by an army of angry drakelings. Use it when you have maxxed out your unit limit.

Wild-Gift / Fungus - Second Category Point
Wild Growth - 5/5 With this ability you can play through the entire game with only 1 regeneration inscription without a care in the world. With Ancestral life and Antimagic Shield you will feel, and very nearly BE invincible between these three talents and your ever writhing ever increasing lump of dutiful fur.
Fungal Growth - 1/5 Has some synergy with Nature's Touch, but not worth anything more than the point required to get to the others.
Ancestral Life - 5/5 Every single turn you have a healing infusion on you, equilibrium drops 3 points. You ALSO gain almost your entire turn back when casting healing infusion making it a free action. Set your healing infusion to cast automatically every time it is available and watch your equilibrium and heal issues disappear. It is INCREDIBLE, there is no other way to slice it, this ability makes such a huge difference that you should get it at level 20 and not wait until 36.
Sudden Growth - 1/5 This is a surprisingly huge heal when it takes into account the constant regeneration from your infusion. A single point is enough to return you several hundred health.


Prodigies

There are no incredible must have prodigies for a summoner to take, you can choose whatever you like, draconic will and draconic body are always good choices for a more basic and safer run, but if you see anything that catches your eyes don't be afraid to give it a whirl.


Conclusion

Rely on the Flamespitter and the Hound to keep you safe until you can summon the drakes then use them to trample every enemy in sight into the ground. More important than that, if you remember ANYTHING from this guide at all, it should be: drakes rock. Not but really, remember to have fun with the class, and the game. Comments and feedback are welcome, but please, lets keep all of the criticism constructive and preferably unadulterated adoration. :mrgreen:


General Tips

As a general rule for every class keep your hand off the mouse unless you have to use it, make extensive use of the keypad and your life becomes easier, when summoning creatures you want near you while an enemy is off in the distance just press 5 to center the spell on you and move it away one tile, or just cast it right on you.

Never get cocky around Casters at any point and always keep yourself as close to full hp as possible. You are likely going to be vulnerable to a concentrated burst even with AM and fungus, and should always corner summon if there are more than 2 enemies who can hit you on the same turn for a lot of damage.

Return your equilibrium to baseline between every battle, failing summoning or a natures touch can end your life.


Boss Specific Strategies

Room of Holy mother of Gawd - Use a summon to open the door while you are in the room to the south, summon wave after wave after wave of enemies at the door until you get the exp bump, you will notice when you do. You can do this room as SOON as you reach it, summoners have an easy time for it so long as you don't let them out of the room.
Atamathon - Keep out of sight keeping a tree or two between you and him, when he charges you teleport to one of your minions or speed inscription away (you should always have one). Summon melee to keep him in one spot, and summon the Flamespitter and the Drake off to the side to pelt him while he is busy. Don't be surprised if at some points during the fight your minions die the very round you put them down for a couple of turns, that it Atamathon being Atamathon.
Linaniil - You can't do her if you went AM like you almost certainly did, such a shame. If you did not go AM and try to take her on, I wish you good luck and suggest editing game code to make both yourself and your minions immortal. For starters.
Final Boss - You can natures touch your ally, and the turtle will heal her for A LOT with Grand Arrival. You should close every portal when your movement inscription is ready, and then have no trouble for the rest of the fight, the turtle is the key to victory here by keeping your ally alive.


Last edited by adrian on Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:11 am 
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Higher

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:25 am
Posts: 57
Very well done! You put my pitiful Alchemist guide to shame :oops:

The only things I would like to add...

The trees from Thalore's racial are quite nice. They taunt, like the turtle, without taking up a summoned slot. (I can't stand yeeks, don't know how their summons compare. Shorter, no doubt.)

If you're in a long fight and can't afford meditation, Jelly summons lower equilibrium based on damage they receive. Dropping one in an enemy ground effect can give you a huge EQ boost without meditation's damage penalty.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:26 am 
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Higher

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 72
Very nice, most of what is written is spot on with my experience. For few things that don't:

- Cornacs are amazing for AM summoners. You need all 5 category points for max infus slots, Fungus and 2 trees, and I value those way more than what other racials give.
- I don't feel Yeek appeal at all. The best thing there is Confusion resist, which you even may have, kinda, from Prodigy. 15% global speed is marginally useful for summoner in first place, after Frantic summoning you will find waiting for minions rather than needing to act again NAO. -150hp for a class that don't have any build in defensive (like Aegis) leaves you open to one shots unless you are really careful all the time. Oh, and it's racial summon are junk compared to what Thalore trees can do.
- Halfling - Luck of Little folks + Frantic summoning = 100% crit rate ultra pet group. Duck and Dodge + Luck prodigy = immunity to melee damage if you ever get close to it. Saves are saves, and last racial means you can drop physical infusion.
- Dwarf, why so high? You don't value health at all looking at Yeeks, so only thing you really gain is all saves and an escape option if you are near wall.

- Ritch I found... bad. It is just a bit better, due to range, than dog early game, don't scale well at all, and when you get Arrival, is close to worthless. Yeah, it can boost its own damage and maybe Drake breath if you summon him near enemy, but Dog will do same AND will boost your Mino, Golem, and Drake roar, all of which are extremely powerful. I also found it problematic to find place to use little bugger at all, given how many summons are on screen walking in his line of fire constantly. Oh, and you don't stack +fire gear most likely.
- Hydra is soooo good when you first get it. It is worth juggling points early on to get room clearer before you get Drake which will replace it.
- Spider, rather agree, although it is quite fun late game with everything maxed to get him up to 5/5, his poison scale nicely.

- Nature Cycle, late game with Detonate works in tandem pretty well.
- Detonate itself is amazing for clearing hallways where normally only one summon can fight at a time. Or for making your summons way more sturdy with help of a Turtle. Or just clearing that motherbucking teleporting orcs by just one shotting them with dog.
- Wild summon, 1 point, is enough to use with Frantic and have all pets gain skills. Dog one is good (if it ever manage to use it), so is Golem one, and Turtle will act as magnet.

- Earth Eyes is amazing at 5 points. It grants Telepathy all which is HUGE for class that don't need line of sight to fight enemies, allows for very safe scouting ahead in tough places like Lake Nur 3, Dark Crypt or High Peak. Especially true if you are Yeek, unless you like being one shot by random Freeze.
- Not putting 1 point in Heighned Senses is silly, 5 infravision is huge in dark areas early on. I tend to put 3 in the end for trap removal, as rare as they are it is still nice to clear them.
- Aura of Silence have, what, 12 range at 5/5? That is basically whole screen, unless you corner cheese in every place on map, it's amazing for Prides, and gives you summons 5 turns to munch on that OP spellcaster rare that constantly one shot them otherwise.

- You forgot Harmony tree, which is unlocked for free. One point in Waters of Life can save life against heavy damage diseases you may get once in a while. Rest I find lacking, and you may have EQ problems if you use more sustains.

Gear - you haven't mentioned crit and multiplier at all. It is single most important way to bring your late game summons from overpowered to god status. From what I experienced, critical summon got its stat multiplied by crit multiplier (duh) which makes stacking it good way to boost them since Mindpower gets heavy diminishing returns at this point. Second, if you find Telepathy:All, don't loose it. Being able to see enemies and summons through walls, and even detonate out of los, is gamebreaking for Summoners.


And yeah, Drakes are op.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:40 am
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Jelly can be useful to regenerate equilibrium, but most of your summons don't even reach double digits in cost, so regeneration will be able to take care of large amounts of it, and you can nearly always get a burst of summons out that will last a few turns while you meditate it down. Note that a 5-15% chance of failure isn't lethal if you are summon spamming from out of range/sight since your summons will almost certainly be able to last several turns most of the time. The treants do seem to be more useful than the mindslayers, but the rest of the race still doesn't make up for being an elf :P.

Since Cornacs are the base model, they combine well with just about every class, but I disagree that an additional infuse slot is worth more than other racials. As a summoner you are almost never in the firing line, unless you mess up, in which case 1 wild 1 movement is enough to fix it in my experience, it is of course about personal preference when it comes to race.

Dominate Will is not be underestimated for Yeek with high willpower, its success rate, and the fact that it is instant, make it invaluable at times. There are a large variety of enemies that it can be used against to help with groups, pride entrances, dark crypt, Charred Scar, and even High Peak. The confusion resist is the only debillitating status effect that can really cripple your summons, while others slow your progress and DPS. The lack of hp on a Yeek was irrelevant to me on summoner because of the sheer number of allies you can produce, but on NM or playing a more aggressive character would obviously value it more. I agree the mindslayers are lackluster, but for a single point they can absorb quite a few hits at the very least.

Halflings I don't have a lot of experience with as a caster, and am unsure of how cirical spell casts affect summons (I know that they do, but not the specifics) The lack of great/specific prodigies for summoners means you could take things like lucky day without a problem, but I feel again that the incredible rarity with which you take hits, and the fantastic shielding and regenerative abilities of AM make it defunct.

Dwarves are a very commendable race choice for basically every class, they are reliable in their performance in a game of unpredictability, and for beginners and veterans alike they can be life savers without you even knowing you were close to death.

The Ritch does have a very specific role to play, and in long thin corridors there are better, more durable summons to choose from, but in an arena environment with open spaces if you cast one off to the side he will do well over 1400 damage before he disappears, which is not bad for 1 turn. A large part of being a summoner is summoning what you need in each different circumstance, and you can play through the entire game without summoning most of your pets and it will get you the same result, but I feel the flamespitter has a high priority to be summoned in open spaces where it can go to work. The hydra is a great pet to use in between level 4 and 12 when your summons are not strong enough, or last long enough, to be able to cycle through them, but when you have the drakes, and when you have grand arrival they become incredibly toxic to your survival. I didn't want to mention skill point juggling because to a new player even the information provided can be overwhelming and they can complete the game without that headache just fine.

I will take your word on detonate and wild summon, I could see their appeal but was never put into a position where I felt the summons were too slow or too weak to do their job and needed to be further augmented.

Earth's Eyes is indeed amazing, but I find summoners to be extremely short on the generic talent front and it involves an awful lot of micromanagement of the meditation skill which can easily trip up even the most experienced player when they leave it on at the start of an important fight.
I forgot to mention getting Heightened senses from an escort if possible, it is a nice skill, but hardly crucial to your survival, as to Aura of Silence you may be right that leveling it up will help your minions clear enemies faster, but again I felt that they were already very competent killers, and that there were no enemies that were able to survive more than a few turns against the massive river of flesh I was throwing at them. The Waters of Life can be a nice 1 point, though I almost always forget about it, like when writing this guide.

I am unfamiliar wit the particular mechanics of how critical hits and critical multiplier affects summons, so left it out, how much extra damage does it make the summons do, or does it increase a specific state relating to the summon? Telepathy: All is flat out the single best stat to find affixed on an item, and don't think many people would be leaving it behind on any class at all. Except maybe Stone Wardens because they don't give a damn.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:03 pm
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A critical on a summoning multiplies the portions of the stats based on mindpower. Check the code for details. For instance, the Ritch Flamespitter gets a Willpower score of 15 + (self:mindCrit(self:combatMindpower(2)) * self:getTalentLevel(t) / 5). So, if you have a mindpower of 100, your ritch gets 215 Willpower (which is then rescaled--the result is just over 80, I believe) at level 5/5. With a 50% crit multiplier, a critical on your summon gives the Ritch 50% more Willpower from your mindpower, for a total of 315 Willpower (again, that gets rescaled--I think it hits ** at this point).

Also, I can't help but notice that you didn't even mention Mindstar Mastery. Granted, there's no room for it in your build, but if you're a Cornac and/or skipping out on Zigur, you might be able to afford it. The tree gives you APR (which your summons inherit), an instant-use slow for enemies that manage to get too close, and Leaves Tide (DOTs enemies while giving yourself and your summons a chance to flat-out negate incoming damage). It's a lot more attractive now that summons only have a range of 5. Did you try it out at all?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:44 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:40 am
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Anything I left out I am wholly ignorant of, so didn't want to comment, which is why I stressed that this was to help people get a handle on the class and not an exhaustive run down. I have never tried a summoner who did anything but summon and get abilities to make it easier to summon, how does armor penetration from mindstars work with negative physical resistance? Almost every enemy in the game is vulnerable to physical thanks to the lovable little puppy. There should to be a clearer description of exactly what stats your summons inhereit and how it translates over. A lot of the minions I was summoning at level 50 were getting ** power in their attack school without me even focusing on crit or crit multiplier, does it continue to add damage on top of it, or are there other benefits from a critical summon? It seems like crit and crit multipler would at late game simply become overkill and will sometimes appear naturally on items that you will want to be using anyway.

http://te4.org/characters/28303/tome/d8 ... 0b9420ee69

The character I based this on has only 58% mental crit chance, no crit multiplier along with 74 mindpower, so do not know if they should have been at, or so close to ** power (perhaps the great caller category modifiers?) based on those formula but I would guess that the 86% physical and 17% all probably pushed all of my summons heavily towards OW THE PAIN territory. I undoubtedly have some of the best items available on that character, so it may not be representative of most summoners troubles, but never had any trouble at all with summons feeling like they needed to be MORE awesome than they already were, I loved my little dogs and drakelings.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:19 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm
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They still should gain power. I had stair guardians on Nightmare summoning dogs with 900 damage in their char sheet, and Drakes roaring for 1000+ with me having over 40% phys res.. Mindstar mastery is plainly bad, you don't want to be close to enemy, apr don't transfer to pets (well, the on weapon apr don't, only 'when wielded worn' does, and I think Mastery buffs first one) and even if it did, it's still poinltess, -70% physical resist makes pets eat bulwarks in few turns, and most other enemies have very low to none armor.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:57 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:03 pm
Posts: 717
Nivrax wrote:
They still should gain power. I had stair guardians on Nightmare summoning dogs with 900 damage in their char sheet, and Drakes roaring for 1000+ with me having over 40% phys res.. Mindstar mastery is plainly bad, you don't want to be close to enemy, apr don't transfer to pets (well, the on weapon apr don't, only 'when wielded worn' does, and I think Mastery buffs first one) and even if it did, it's still poinltess, -70% physical resist makes pets eat bulwarks in few turns, and most other enemies have very low to none armor.


Summons inherit the APR of your mainhand weapon (including any +APR effects you have on you). Anyways, we don't need to compare Mindstar Mastery to Grand Arrival; its cost is a number of generics and a category point. The category point cost makes it skippable for a lot of builds, but I think Cornacs--particularly ones that don't go antimagic--can make the investment worthwhile.

Also, randelite bulwarks are hardly the only dangerous enemies with armor. If your summons are tearing apart Grushnak or Argoniel with ease, then that's pre-nerf Solipsist overpowered.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm
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Mewtarthio wrote:
Summons inherit the APR of your mainhand weapon (including any +APR effects you have on you).
Also, randelite bulwarks are hardly the only dangerous enemies with armor. If your summons are tearing apart Grushnak or Argoniel with ease, then that's pre-nerf Solipsist overpowered.


http://te4.org/characters/26842/tome/46 ... 768de54822

Check weapons, check amulet. I summoned a Dog and Mino. Dog has 18APR, Minotaur got 11APR. After taking amulet off and summoning them again, Dog has 10APR and Mino got 4APR. Armor penetration don't transfer unless it's from 'wielded/worn' bonuses. I would never take that tree at any point, and if I went not-AM route, I would probably went wacky way with magic and try to boost elemental summons instead, otherwise it's not even unorthodox build, it's just unoptimal, risky with no real gains. Mindstars can work on weapon, it's just that summoner is last class I would use them on in that way. And they certainly shouldn't be recommended in guide for new players, they require total opposite tactic.

As for those 2, Grushnak did take few sets to go down, my first summoner could barely manage to get him down, my second got little easier but still destroyed many pets. Argoniel was eaten alive iirc. If he didn't, well, the Elendar shadow nova thingy got half arena range and was one shotting pets (which can't have resists or more health no matter your gear), having him more tanky or summons weaker means class wouldn't be able to win the game.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Yeek

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:59 am
Posts: 10
Hi,

I asked in-game what stats a summoner wants on gear to increase stats for his pets. Here is the answer that I got from a couple of people. Is this list accurate? Is it complete?

+% dam (phys, nature, poison, blight, darkness, light, etc)
armor pen (but not if it's on the summoner's weapon, only on gear)
resist pen (+% phys pen, nature pen, etc)
+mindpower
+ phys crit chance %

So some things that aren't helpful
change damage type
+crit damage
+crit mult %
+phys power
+resist anything
+% immunity

Is all of that right? Anything to add?

Thanks!


Last edited by jjdenver on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:40 am
Posts: 27
Don't bother getting +damage% on anything other than physical, if you find an item that has physical + another element GREAT, but by and large physical is the only one you need. Same goes for resist penetration, but with the hounds arrival your enemies already have negative physical resistance likely as not, so it is overkill.

You DO want debuff resistance/immunity though, confuse/pin/stun/blind. Confuse and blind are the main problems and you should only get them on an item if you aren't losing too many other stats by not wearing something else.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 72
Phys crit chance don't work, mind does, so does multiplier, none of which is inherited, but your cast can crit and make them with boosted stats.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Yeek

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:59 am
Posts: 10
Guys, thanks for the replies but honestly I'm just left confused. I've been playing the game for awhile but clearly there is an knowledge gap that doesn't let me understand what you're telling me very well.

Can someone clearly lay out in one post the bonuses that apply and are desirable? Sorry but I think it needs to be dumbed down for me, and probably for a lot of other players who will read these posts.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 72
100% stun resist, for yourself, and Confusion resist if possible too.
Mindpower for summons to scale well.
Willpower (->mindpower) and Cunning (->small mindpower and more max summons)
Mental crit and crit multiplier to occasionally, and late game most of time, get boosted summons.
+Physical % damage.

That's what you want to focus on.

Armor penetration, elemental % damage, resist penetration all help, but can be safely ignored in favor of other, more important stats.

And if you find item with Telepathy:All, never take it off.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:18 am
Posts: 285
I think Thalore summoners are great. They have save bonuses too, but most importantly, Resist All, with more resist All on demand. Throw in Resist All from Wild, it can sum up to near-invincibility. Not for long, but enough to survive while your pets mop up. And it seems, Resist All from wild and WotW are added also to all other resist you have. So, if you have 25% Resist All, 30% Fire REsist, and cast 20% resist and 20% WotW, you will have 70% both, cutting all fire damage by 91%.


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