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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:19 pm 
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My best run was making it to lvl 26 and then dying to Urkis. I only play on roguelike setting so I have, by default, 1 life.

I put all points in Magic, followed by Cun -> Con. I tried both the Elven races and the Halfling.

My biggest problem is getting insta-gibbed by casters outside of my vision range who crit or by golden chests. If I can see a caster, I can deal with them - but casters that are just around the corner or out-range me are a problem. Stacking +res isn't fast enough to counter some of the heavy casters later on unless I can acquire, at least, a Chant escort. I usually invest in Cun and Survivability tree otherwise.

I had success with the Acid tree the most. Fire's smoke bomb can possibly solve my close-range golden chest problem but hard-hitting casters that I don't see and AoE will remain a problem, I assume. Cold tree can mitigate the crit damage but that's only later in the game.

For golem, I max out Mag and increase Strength to 24 for better armors. I give him 2 shield inscriptions and the Rune of the Rift. Vitality from warrior escort.

Any ideas? I plan to beat the game on Insane/Madness using the Alchemist class. Is that even possible achieving?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Magical Girl

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:36 am
Posts: 420
I'm not an expert on alchemist but I've played around with them a fair bit on Insane so I can give you some tips. Far from a guide, but should be enough.

The best way to survive "insta-gibbing" in general, as any class or race, and in any difficulty is to stack HP gear. HP gear will be a lot more valuable than res gear early, it's cheap and easy to find, and you make a lot of extra money by turning items you don't need into gems. It's also a much better way to get HP than con, con won't save you very often since it gives small amounts. Other things that help will be Shielding runes and/or Heroism infusions as effective HP, however you'll still want a healthy chunk of actual HP or Die at -.

5/5/5/0 bombs is very important for dealing damage.
Alchemist shouldn't focus solely on one tree, you want certain skills from different trees regardless of which one you pick. Pick one to focus on for a while but get skills like Ice Core (important for survivability), Flash Freeze, Caustic Mire, and Dissolving Acid either way. Don't spend more than one point in infusions (as in, the first sustain in each elemental tree) until way later in the game and even then unless you have points to spare, and then only level your main one. Get one point in Invoke Golem and Golem Portal early-ish. I've heard the locked lightning tree is worth having at some point, but I haven't played around with it. As a class with few escapes, use a movement infusion to have a reliable escape/mobility method at hand, Track will probably be quite helpful for survivability if you can find it, by letting you position more carefully and making use of bombs' long range and your golem.

Make sure you build your golem to tank as much as possible, that's his objective first and foremost. Shielding runes are good, so is using an actual shield, hp gear, biting gale runes, lightning runes, 1x invis rune, rift wouldn't be a priority for me.
Unlocking Advanced Golemancy is important due to supercharge golem, allowing you to quickly bring your golem back when it dies. Runic golem becomes quite useful later giving your golem more options and survivability. Remember you can heal your golem during fights with Refit Golem.
Putting 1 vitality on golem is fine, but all other escort skills should go to you since you need to survive more than your golem; he is disposable, you are not.

As far as difficulty wins with alchemist go... insane is winnable, madness is not. It will be a while before you can achieve that if you need to post this, the class is not easy to win insane with, so in the meantime focus on winning nightmare and moving up to and learning insane with different classes if that's what your personal goal is :) insane is a different beast from nightmare.

Good luck, I hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 144
I can tell you to stick on adventure mode for some time. This game is really long, and few lives can smoothing your run once in a while. There is no fun in keeping up progress of a few game sessions, lost by the misclick/dumb mistake.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Sheila wrote:
The best way to survive "insta-gibbing" in general, as any class or race, and in any difficulty is to stack HP gear. HP gear will be a lot more valuable than res gear early, it's cheap and easy to find, and you make a lot of extra money by turning items you don't need into gems.

I see. My strategy was always stacking up +res and getting chant of resistance if possible. That's why I tried Thalore; they have a +res passive. Which race do you think benefits survivability the most and remains useful for an alchemist?

Sheila wrote:
It's also a much better way to get HP than con, con won't save you very often since it gives small amounts. Other things that help will be Shielding runes and/or Heroism infusions as effective HP, however you'll still want a healthy chunk of actual HP or Die at -.

So I should put the extra points in cunning for more critical or dex for crafty hands. Speaking of which, which prodigy do you prefer?

Sheila wrote:
Pick one to focus on for a while but get skills like Ice Core (important for survivability), Flash Freeze, Caustic Mire, and Dissolving Acid either way. Don't spend more than one point in infusions (as in, the first sustain in each elemental tree) until way later in the game and even then unless you have points to spare, and then only level your main one. Get one point in Invoke Golem and Golem Portal early-ish. I've heard the locked lightning tree is worth having at some point, but I haven't played around with it. As a class with few escapes, use a movement infusion to have a reliable escape/mobility method at hand, Track will probably be quite helpful for survivability if you can find it, by letting you position more carefully and making use of bombs' long range and your golem.

Do you also put points in the fire tree?

St_ranger_er wrote:
I can tell you to stick on adventure mode for some time. This game is really long, and few lives can smoothing your run once in a while. There is no fun in keeping up progress of a few game sessions, lost by the misclick/dumb mistake.

Roguelike is the main appeal for me for such a game. I'm a little masochistic; I don't mind losing my character as long as I've learned something from the run which is always the case. I just say 'Well, that was a good run!' and make another character right away. If I have more than 1 life, I'll get bored and quit playing.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Magical Girl

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:36 am
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Quote:
I see. My strategy was always stacking up +res and getting chant of resistance if possible. That's why I tried Thalore; they have a +res passive. Which race do you think benefits survivability the most and remains useful for an alchemist?

Res is more valuable if you have more HP and viceversa, you'd want both ideally, but HP is a waaaay bigger priority early on.
Personally I'm always telling people to play whatever race they enjoy the most there's a lot of wiggle room in what race you play, check around and see what works better for you! Dwarf is a fun race that has some armor and weapon attack shrug with an escape similar to gem portal, for example.
I'm someone who plays Yeek exclusively and it's thought to be one of the weaker races, you can win Insane as any race, undead would be stepping into hard territory though, I wouldn't recommend it for alchemist either.

Quote:
So I should put the extra points in cunning for more critical or dex for crafty hands. Speaking of which, which prodigy do you prefer?

Mag and Cun will be maxed by you for sure, what you decide to do after that is up to you, Dex can help with crit shrug but alchemist already has quite a bit of that thanks to Ice Core, so Con is not terrible in this case, what I'm saying is, don't rely 100% on HP gains from Con to survive. Keep in mind you can max 3 stats (60 base, the number in brackets) and then go about halfway into another. You might want some Wil or mana on gear if you feel too short from sustains, depends on your drops and your build.
I'm not a big fan of crafty hands but it might be a fun prodigy to take if you enjoy imbuing gems. Personally I would go for survivability and take cauterize 100% for sure, after that it's up to you, you could take temporal form for the resists and damage/penetration or things like spine/draconic will for cleanse/immunity since Alchemist isn't well equipped to deal with status.
Remember you can meet stat requirements with gear and heroism infusions!

Quote:
Do you also put points in the fire tree?

The fire tree can be used if you pick it as your main, or if you have leftover points and mana to use the fourth sustain for some extra damage. We really need to lower that sustain cost :(
I don't think smoke bomb is very good.

Quote:
Roguelike is the main appeal for me for such a game. I'm a little masochistic; I don't mind losing my character as long as I've learned something from the run which is always the case. I just say 'Well, that was a good run!' and make another character right away. If I have more than 1 life, I'll get bored and quit playing.

Feel free to play whatever you enjoy the most, adventure would be easier to get used to the game and pick up experience in. I personally find adventure more fun, but there's no point if you don't!

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"I'll bond with a cactus until my buttcheeks touch the sand before I play nethack again" -Gagarin


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:28 am 
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Any tips on countering manaburn or mana clash, btw?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:31 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 10:28 pm
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Wait for the inevitable nerf


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:12 pm
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There's really not a way to counter mana clash other than staying out of range of it and/or nuking the clasher down with your bombs before they have a chance to hit you with it. A manasurge rune can get your mana back after a clash but you'll need to kill them quick before they can just clash you again.

Using your golem to draw aggro is probably the safest way to do it, but do note that the golem also has a mana bar and can be susceptible to it just as much as you.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:27 pm 
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PseudoLoneWolf wrote:
There's really not a way to counter mana clash other than staying out of range of it and/or nuking the clasher down with your bombs before they have a chance to hit you with it. A manasurge rune can get your mana back after a clash but you'll need to kill them quick before they can just clash you again.

Using your golem to draw aggro is probably the safest way to do it, but do note that the golem also has a mana bar and can be susceptible to it just as much as you.

Is there a chance to beat the Ziguranth base on nightmare as an alchemist?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:42 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:21 pm
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Location: From Russia with atchoum!
Deya wrote:
Any ideas? I plan to beat the game on Insane/Madness using the Alchemist class. Is that even possible achieving?

My first idea for you would be to play it on Insane as soon as you can.
Surprisingly enough, but your survivability as Alchemist depends on equipment - which is a shit drop on Nightmare, compared with Insane.
I tried to play on Nightmare around 10 times a few days ago - you just constantly starved on decent equipment, and really can only rely on irl luck.
And when I started Alchemist on Insane - just for joke reason, because these Nightmare tries made me very irritated, I realized that it's much more successful then tries on Nightmare.
Second - try a Alchemist+Tinker tree combo (from escort, use addon that allow to pick escorts and first pick Tinker escort, otherwise you'll go mad, the rest escorts pick random), for this you'll need Cornac, as he allow you to unlock inscriptions and Tinker tree early on.
As was said - use HP equipment together with res - combine it in a way you have max from both.
One advice - when go agains Urkis, it's better to have high lightning res and means to remove magical effects.
Also, boss in KorPul can oneshot you with freeze (on Insane) for it good to have a few pieces of cold res gear (also Norgos Lair is much more threatening on Insane).

Your general defence should be massive armor, fatigue doesn't matter, sad but true.
If you want Crafty Hands, just find +Dex equipment, don't need to rise Dex on magic user.
Most useful tree - Acid, I useing it from start, when something that resist it appear you usually have Frost infusion already, which you should for Ice Core.
So, if you will use massive armor for your defence, you will need to rise Str, that mean Magic, Cunning, Str.
Usually I max one stat, when I can't rise it i put leftover points in another.
So you need to rise Magic, and Str first. Cunning is for endgame, you can live without it, but can't without Magic and Str.
So, for prodigies you also can pick Str-based ones.
Also, max Thick Skin asap, get +Con gear for that.

PS Also, if you don't have it or don't want to play with Tinker tree, pick Ogre - it's always the best for her per-level HP gain, ability to weild two-hander and something else, and bonus to infusions. Thalore is a meh.

PPS I did Dark Crypt on Impossible with this character https://te4.org/characters/35987/tome/4 ... 00efcac2ad

PPPS Don't really want to continue Alchemist past point of unlocking Drolem, not sure how I can win last fight with such mediocre DPS when I lost that fight with Psyshot, who did 70 K of damage per 20 turns on dummies.

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