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Necromancer suck on Insane
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=47604
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Author:  GlassGo [ Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Necromancer suck on Insane

I recently tried it, and failed in Old Forest - enemiy build on gunslinger destroed his ass - coudnt run because he found me faster then cd for Phase Door and Teleport, can't damage because he two-shot me.
So, what the - I'm supposed to do as Necro in this situation?
Also it was minion-less build.

PS I was so close to Lichdom... :twisted:

Author:  St_ranger_er [ Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

Corner snipe, i guess?

Author:  GlassGo [ Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

Clarify!

Author:  St_ranger_er [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

It's when you stay behind tile, that block LoS to enemy, but can aim AoE spell to adjanced tile where enemy are, therefore if enemy was within the AoE radius it got hit, even if it's not the center of impact.

Particularly necromancer have Chill of the tomb and Cold flames for that sort of things.

Author:  GlassGo [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

He was so fast he found me after 4-5 turns after teleport.
Such tricks doesn't help.

Author:  St_ranger_er [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

Is it any case that enemy was one with 200% base speed? Those bees are, well, pretty insane.

Did you try track+movement infusion+zig-zag digging?

There are possibility to get rid of EoR stuff by disabling it in addon menu, but if you planning to use tinkers, obviously it's not an option.

Besides that, t2 zones on insane+ are considered as high difficulty spike.

Also, take a look on this thread viewtopic.php?f=49&t=43003 maybe there are answers about necromancer that are you looking for.

Author:  Mex [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

Maybe it's you that sucks on Insane?

Author:  voltteccer [ Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

GlassGo wrote:
PS I was so close to Lichdom... :twisted:

Found the problem, it's user error as usual.

PS -- The bee's damage output has no effect on your ability to hurt it because Necromancer's two best sources of damage in the first half of the game are a DoT spell (so you can just stick it on him and then teleport away) and an AoE spell (so you can corner-snipe from out of LOS)

PPS -- If you were "close" to lichdom, then you had access to Sacrifice, which would make it impossible for something to "2-shot" you.

Author:  GlassGo [ Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

St_ranger_er wrote:
Is it any case that enemy was one with 200% base speed? Those bees are, well, pretty insane.

It was bear with 2K hp.
judging by the sensations it cover 2-3 3-4 tiles for one mine.

Quote:
Did you try track+movement infusion+zig-zag digging?

No, I met him early and start to teleport away in a bunch of other mobs, this escalated quickly, was killed when Oozemancer-based rare or unique interfered.
I just had no time for zig-zag because he was too fast, and it doesnhelp because he two-shot me. Aslo had Movement Infusion, Phase Door and Teleportation.

Quote:
There are possibility to get rid of EoR stuff by disabling it in addon menu, but if you planning to use tinkers, obviously it's not an option.

Yeah, disabling and avoiding things like Dark Crypt isn't my cup of tea.

Quote:
Besides that, t2 zones on insane+ are considered as high difficulty spike.

I saw somebody called them as most dangerous part of the game.

Mex wrote:
Maybe it's you that sucks on Insane?

Maybe.
But maybe not.

Author:  HousePet [ Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

Isn't the point of Insane that everything sucks?

Author:  GlassGo [ Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

Maybe.

Author:  GlassGo [ Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

I'm suck and I'm OK with it.

So, what race for Necro with Tinkering?

Author:  GlassGo [ Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

I did one more try on Insane, and I doubt that Necro can did DC on Insane - he just don't have enough dps, at least with my build.
InvD, RM, and ImpD, even with FoH it is too little, not enough.
2-3 rares with one psionic-type boss finished my char, even thou I did zigzag digging.
Sad.

Author:  zanth77 [ Sat May 19, 2018 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Necromancer suck on Insane

Caster necros are broken OP right now with the new Drem class. Frenzy talent solves necro cooldown issues, and hungering mouth talent gives them a 'real' pet with over 4k health and 50 resist all. I killed vault dragons on nightmare at level 36. The hungering mouth survived an entire turn with all dragons firing at it! I beat atamathon at 50, but haven't won the game yet since I'm OP to the point of it getting boring. Based on playing this class a lot recently, here's what I'd recommend to nerf the OP stuff and buff the weak stuff.

Nerf:
- Bloodcaller synergy with vampiric embrace. It's ridiculous. I have like 200% heal mod and a 700 dmg cast might heals me for 800 or something like that. Trivializes stuff and makes me wish i hadn't taken both cauterize and draconic body since nothing can kill me anymore it seems. Bloodcaller doesn't seem to work with vampiric embrace off, so it shouldn't suddenly work with it on.
- Hungering mouth (from below it devours talent) needs to be tough if it's going to last the full 9 turns, but limit it's awesomeness. Instead of draw ALL creatures, have it draw from 1-5 creatures based on it's rank. Even 5 is a lot, so maybe 4 max. That way player isn't just yawning with nothing threatening him.
- Frenzy - just kidding. Yes it kind makes caster necros strong before they get Star Fury tree, but it's so fun. SKilling it up seems somewhat lackluster since it just reduces the cooldown. If I changed the talent, it would be that skilling up was needed to increase duration from 2-3 turns rather than starting it at 3 turns from rank 1.

Buff:
- Create Minions! It's no fair that Hungering mouth at rank 5 can last 9 turns with an entire room hitting on it, while Create Minions at rank 5 -- all the minions can be wiped out in a single AOE. Sure you can buff it with dark empathy and minion mastery, but even then the minions wouldn't last as long and that's spending an additional 10 class points! Necro should be the king of summons. Yet since they're the one of the oldest summons classes, their pets have languished compared to all the new pet talents. Sure caster necros are super OP if you follow some of the tips I mentioned above, but most people who create a necro actually want to use minions. (Note, I'd also like an increase to minion damage, but I've never tried blighted summoning so I have no room to make suggestions on this yet.)
- Forgery of Haze - simply make it stop casting rank 1 spells when it has so many rank 5 spells. Huge annoyance since most folks leave the cold talents at rank 1 when going for vamp embrace.
- Impending doom - make this do darkness damage. I have no idea why it's arcane. My only guess is that folks who cast it on themselves would heal from it due to affinity if it were darkness, but none of the other darkness spells can be exploited this way so seems easy to avoid allowing such an exploit.
- Assemble - Bone Giants at rank 5 and 6 have reassembly. It used to let them resurrect 1 time. Re-enable this or remove the talent from their skillset. I recommend re-enabling since they're supposed to be durable.

I feel I could easily win Insane by abusing bloodcaller again, but I'm going to switch to alchemist for my first insane attempts. From what I gather, it's the new 'weakest' class so it should be more interesting to find ways to break/exploit it's talents and make it OP.

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