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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:05 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:12 pm
Posts: 125
I went sludge grinding last time I needed a white voratun amulet and never got one, after a while every enemy starts spawning as rare+ and they won't drop white gear anymore so far as I know.

Atma drops white T5s but I needed the amulet to get the buffs to fight Atma...

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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:37 am 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:35 pm
Posts: 52
Just noticed how bad Two-Handed Weapon category of Bulwark really is, it's like compilation of weakened Berserker talents with 0.9 Mastery on top of it. Death Dance is the same but no bleed, Berserker costs double stamina and doesn't grant crit, Warshout is the same, but due to low master range and duration are crippled and Death Blow has terrible scaling and downright harmful Stamina drain effect. I never had quite enough stamina in prolonged fights in the first place, so putting more than 1 point in it is probably terrible idea, since it's only good for instakilling low HP enemies, and damage is irrelevant for this.

Now I'm wondering if this category even worth unlocking. Have you tried it yourself? Not sure why it even exists in its current state. Basically we get pretty bad AoE ability, some CC that won't probably work on bosses due to low mastery and one finisher.

No matter how I look at it, Warcries seem downright better. Without it extended fights are simply impossible.

Also, why Skeletons are considered bad? They have a boost to 2 most important stats, powerful shield and CC reduction. And to cover up for lack of Infusions we can use tinkers.

But Ghouls are indeed better choice, IMO they are one of the best choices for Bulwark. They have very suitable racial talents (reposition, heal, debuff) and various bonuses such as stun resistance and high HP, while Ogre only has 2H weapon buff, since you probably won't utilise 6th inscription as you need category unlocks.

I'd rate Ghoul at least 4/5 on par with Thaloren.

Shalore might actually be best race, even though Bulwark has only 3 effects affected with Timeless: Blinding Speed, Battle Shout and Greater Weapon Focus (+ Inscriptions, and maybe Perfect strike if needed and Providence if went Light), those are his main skills so he benefits greatly from Timeless.


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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:55 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 pm
Posts: 199
It's actually the old berserker tree, that's why you feel it's a weakened version of it :p

Death dance is bad, it's an AoE in pinch but repulsion is way better.
Berserker is good, even at 0.9 it's more than 40% stun and pin res, plus some accuracy and phys power.
Warshout is an AoE confuse, nothing worng with that
Death blow is uhhh, yeah, an automatic crit. You don't invest more than 1 because of scaling, and I don't want it to drain stamina, but instakill can be useful.

I haven't tried it, no. Warcries is better but this tree isn't stupid to unlock like, let's say, archery :p If you want to have fun with ogre, go ahead, just know you're not optimal. CC will stick just fine, it uses physpower, only death dance is really lackluster.

Skelly stat boost is not that much, I'm not a fan of bone shield because it uses a turn, CC reduction is very good and their best talent by far (stack multiplicatively with PD rune, not additively sadly), re-assemble is okay. They still are the worst because no infusion. Tinker is not guaranteed, even if you get them you don't have movement/heroism. Ghoul aren't the best choice for bulwark for same reason despite a lot of synergy. Ogre 2h weapon buff is HUGE, but they also have inscription buff that are just as huge. I'm talking things like movement infusion granting 10 freaking turns of free action, you could probably even get PD rune with duration longer than the cd with great luck. You won't get the 6th inscription though, yeah.

Shalore definitely also timeless inscription (PD, heroism, regen) and perfect strikes, why wouldn't you do that?

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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:35 pm
Posts: 52
Oh, didn't know that it's old Berserker tree, just started to play after 1.5.5. But yeah, it's very underwhelming. Though if you don't go tinkers it's not that bad, otherwise stun immunity is overkill since you will have 50% from cloak tinker and 50% from shield wall. And physical power and accuracy will scale extremely bad when you get this tree, basically giving you 6-7 effective accuracy and physical power at levels 3-5 at the cost of 10 armor and 40 stamina sustain. Not bad but not worth category point IMO.

As for Warshout, its chance to proc scales purely with talent level (if wiki is not lying), so it'll be underwhelming on Insane due to low mastery. I'd say, this category is good in early game and below average in late game, so your suggestion to take it with last point is probably not optimal. Even for Ogre warcries are much better. I feel like it might be good at start (as early as level 10), since physical power and accuracy bonuses will be more powerful and confusion will be more useful. Still, it will drain your class points and void your 4th insription, so probably still not worth it. If the tree was comparable to current berserker tree and/or had 1.2 mastery at least, then I'd probably go for it. But the way it is now it's useless.

As for Archery, I can find some sense in Ogre dualwielding Bow and Shield, since bows are so powerful to begin with. The main downside is lack of weapon mastery for bows and no way to proc marks, but it's still playable. Probably. Oh, and that's an easy way to unlock skirmisher :)

Maybe even go for Swift Hands and play Temporal Warden style, fully utilising Step Up (I can't even imagine how powerful this combo might be, repositioning yourself after every kill as archer + restoring ammo, just wow). Pin Down, Scatter Shot and Fragmentation Shot are all great debuffs for Bulwark plus the latter 2 provide much needed AoE at low Stamina cost. And yeah, it has 1.1 mastery, because shield users love bows more than 2H swords o_0.

Wow, now I really want to try it. Pretty sure it can win Insane without much problems, maybe Swift Hands are unnecesary since all you abilities except assault don't need a melee weapon. And you can counterstrike with bow from range. Sounds fun for me, and much more viable than 2h tree :D As for prodigies, Arcan Might and Swift Hands/Vital Shot or ICCtW should do well. This way you will deal much less damage than archer but you will be much more tanky and basically won't lose any of your melee prowess as Brawler (maybe a bit of it, if you have one prodigy slot used for Swift Hands/Vital Shot). The only downside I can think of: you need 2 shield for this, as you seemingly can't use the same shield in both setups.

P.S. As for Shalore, I just meant that perfect strikes are not as important as other skills, and inscriptions are not class specific, you always use them before Timeless. So I mentioned only main skills.

P.P.S. Another question: Why block is bad? I mean, it's almost always better to use block instead of simply attacking (unless you can immediately kill the enemy), because in 2 turns you will basically deal the same damage thanks to Counterattack debuff and at the same time prevent some damage. So if all your talents are on CD, is there any reason to NOT use block? It looks especially good just before you use a powerful skill, since you will get even more damage.

EDIT: Playing it now, feels quite good, steamrolled all T1 dungeons like it's nothing (though I was lucky with drowning and got tier 3 quiver with huge on hit damage). Just noticed how OP Last stand is, I couldn't really understand it at first, but it actually heals all your negative hp if you turn it off and move slightly. That's just 0 cd instant heal, lol. Just need to make sure you have no dots on yourself.

EDIT2: Finished Old Forest and Maze, got a bit bored, most fights you just click on enemies until they die and occasionally use repulsion or Scatter Shot for knockback. Step Up is great as expected, every time you kill enemy you refill your quiver to full. With Arkul Siege Arrows or The Titan's Quiver would be strong as hell. I never needed to use my melee weapon and 3 inscriptions did their job well (I still use starter shield and Phase Door because couldn't find anyting much better in shops/drops, third is Mental Wild Infusion, since confusion hurts). Will probably just go ICCtW+Naloren with bows as support in the end, just need to find a tier 5 bow with Quick Weapon Swap to live comfortably (currently have tier 3 bow with this skill, but never used it). Overall feelings are good, but it's a bit boring, archer is much squishier so need more careful play, while this monster has 800 HP without Last Stand and can leftclick to death most rares and uniques despite having low damage. So I can vote for starting with bows as Ogre. Even if it's less useful in late game you'll still get quite a lot of utility.

EDIT3: Forgot to mention why Ogre 2H weapon buff is actually not that good, it will decrease damage of your offhand (Shield) by 50% (if the description is not lying), basically weakining all of your shield talents except Assault. So you are left only to autoattacks from your weapon damage. Though they are truly powerful and Greater Weapon Focus works great, and thanks to Last Stand Ogre Bulwark is still superior to Ogre Maradeur. Yet this downside makes other races more viable. I'd still vote for Shalore as the best one, but they are not the most fun and basically the strongest race overall, so I can understand why you ranked ogre higher. Yet I still feel that Undead are perfectly fine even without tinkers, though Ghoul is still better than Skeleton due to synergy. IMO if you manage to get trinkers, Undead are superior to most other races aside of Ogre and Shalore, because racials are simply too good. Looking at all those Ghoul heals and stat debuffs can't even imagine what can possibly kill him with proper use of Last Stand.


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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:19 am 
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Yeek

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:43 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Sweden
Hello,
and first of all, thank you for the guide. :)

I am trying this out now with an Ogre Bulwark and one thing kind of struck me as odd. There is no synergy between Last Stand and Step Up? If Step Up procs while Last Stand is active you cannot use it. If you deactivate Last Stand then Step Up gets deactivated as well. I am not a 1337 player though, only got 2 wins on normal so I am sure that I am missing something here. :lol:

Could someone more knowledgeable than me please explain what I am missing? Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 pm
Posts: 199
I actually didn't notice it that much, but yeah it could be a problem. If you rest with last stand active and enemies in sight, do you keep step up or not? Wonder if that's what I was doing and why I didn't notice ^^
Also, something to know about step up, it doesn't last 1 whole turn, it last until the end of the global turn so it can end earlier than expected. Not related to your problem but good to know.

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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Yeek

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:43 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Sweden
Cathbald wrote:
I actually didn't notice it that much, but yeah it could be a problem. If you rest with last stand active and enemies in sight, do you keep step up or not? Wonder if that's what I was doing and why I didn't notice ^^
Also, something to know about step up, it doesn't last 1 whole turn, it last until the end of the global turn so it can end earlier than expected. Not related to your problem but good to know.

I just tested this and if I try to rest with Last Stand & Step Up active and enemies in sight, both of them disappears/deactivates. I noticed now though that Last Stand's cooldown also disappears... :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:35 pm
Posts: 52
About True Grit: Increased cost is not as scary as it might seem. If you battle for 10 turns, it will only use 26.5 Stamina, 20 turns - 83 stamina. Increased resistance cap is much better than it might seem as well. If you have all resistances capped, you recieve 30% damage. If your cap is 57% closer to 100, it will be above 87% (if I understand how it works). So you will recieve only 13% damage. It's exactly 57% damage reduction. But it won't help against enemies with 100% res pen.

P.S. What do you think about Flexible Combat/Subcutaneous Metallisation instead of Arcane Might (On Ghoulwark in Particular)? I'd rather max STR, CON and DEX with WIL 4th over MAG on Bulwark.


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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 pm
Posts: 199
agreed on true grit, i've tested it since and liked it. Combined with PD rune it wouldbe very easy to reach even those increased res cap.
I would consider subcutaneous if it passively gave flat DR equal to your con and there was no diminishing return on flat DR.
Flex huh, how well does it work for bulwark in 1.5? since, you know, it's "bugged". In 1.6, with the fix, I'd say it's not a bad idea at all.
That's how much it sucks right now, you could buff every part of it by a lot and I would still only just consider it.

Tunse80 wrote:
I noticed now though that Last Stand's cooldown also disappears... :twisted:

yup, it's in the OP, way at the top ;)

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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:13 am 
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Higher

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:35 pm
Posts: 52
Cathbald wrote:
agreed on true grit, i've tested it since and liked it. Combined with PD rune it wouldbe very easy to reach even those increased res cap.
I would consider subcutaneous if it passively gave flat DR equal to your con and there was no diminishing return on flat DR.
Flex huh, how well does it work for bulwark in 1.5? since, you know, it's "bugged". In 1.6, with the fix, I'd say it's not a bad idea at all.
That's how much it sucks right now, you could buff every part of it by a lot and I would still only just consider it.


Oh, right, I forgot about flat DR diminishing returns. But still, it has 60% uptime, so I guess it's not too bad? Like a better version of level 5 AM shield. With Ghoul high HP pull and regeneration from Retch it will be very hard to kill him in that 4 turn window. I would like to try it, but I'm not sure how much damage I will lose if I drop Arcane Might.

I know that Flex works poorly on Berserker, but I'm not sure what exactly the bug is and how it affects Bulwark. But Bulwark has quite a lot of multihit skills so it should work fine, if it works at all.

Finally, how big are Bulwark stamina issues? I feel like Warcries is either a very important category, or almost useless.

Basically, if stamina is manageable, you don't really need it, but Bulwark doesn't have any other stamina regen tools, so I assume it has some problems with Stamina. And final talent sound like it's very important too, but at the same time very situational. So I wonder if that tree can ever be replaced with extra inscription and when it's a viable choice to do it.

Also, what do you think about getting worldly knowledge for Mobility tree, if maxing DEX? With Phase door and high DEX you will have a lot of Defense, so TR will be powerful even at 0.9 mastery. But again, it may cause some more stamina issues, so Warcries are even more important.

Finally, what about PES? With ICCtW bonuses will be huge, but it won't directly affect your damage aside of ghoul skills. It should be best on Ogre, who will boost STR even more with Heroism and will benefit from stat bonuses more due to improved inscription scaling.


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 Post subject: Re: [1.5] Bulwark Guide
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:26 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 pm
Posts: 199
Derael wrote:
Cathbald wrote:
agreed on true grit, i've tested it since and liked it. Combined with PD rune it wouldbe very easy to reach even those increased res cap.
I would consider subcutaneous if it passively gave flat DR equal to your con and there was no diminishing return on flat DR.
Flex huh, how well does it work for bulwark in 1.5? since, you know, it's "bugged". In 1.6, with the fix, I'd say it's not a bad idea at all.
That's how much it sucks right now, you could buff every part of it by a lot and I would still only just consider it.


Oh, right, I forgot about flat DR diminishing returns. But still, it has 60% uptime, so I guess it's not too bad? Like a better version of level 5 AM shield. With Ghoul high HP pull and regeneration from Retch it will be very hard to kill him in that 4 turn window. I would like to try it, but I'm not sure how much damage I will lose if I drop Arcane Might.

I know that Flex works poorly on Berserker, but I'm not sure what exactly the bug is and how it affects Bulwark. But Bulwark has quite a lot of multihit skills so it should work fine, if it works at all.

Finally, how big are Bulwark stamina issues? I feel like Warcries is either a very important category, or almost useless.

Basically, if stamina is manageable, you don't really need it, but Bulwark doesn't have any other stamina regen tools, so I assume it has some problems with Stamina. And final talent sound like it's very important too, but at the same time very situational. So I wonder if that tree can ever be replaced with extra inscription and when it's a viable choice to do it.

Also, what do you think about getting worldly knowledge for Mobility tree, if maxing DEX? With Phase door and high DEX you will have a lot of Defense, so TR will be powerful even at 0.9 mastery. But again, it may cause some more stamina issues, so Warcries are even more important.

Finally, what about PES? With ICCtW bonuses will be huge, but it won't directly affect your damage aside of ghoul skills. It should be best on Ogre, who will boost STR even more with Heroism and will benefit from stat bonuses more due to improved inscription scaling.



60% uptime but you need to go from higher than 50% to below. That's unreliable at best. Stamina problem mostly stops once you have ICCtW. But one point in second wind is still nice. PES won't give you any damage so no, the other benefits (more life,crit shurg, crit etc...) isn't worth it. You almost always want damage on your prodigies. No for TR for same reason. Warcries against insc is really up to taste, I really like - up mobs using evasion/hymn of shadows.

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