ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:21 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:43 pm
Posts: 139
Okay, so... a few more things:
First, Arc with Hydras Bite (the flail) is one of the greatest things I have seen so far. You can get obscene amounts of hits.

Second, archery attacks do not proc Channel Cold.

Third, thanks for turning Storm Conduit with life leech into "you are full health now" instead of "you are full health now and everyone around you is dead".

EDIT: Add Dream Malleus to the list of "things that are fun to use with Arc". Hammer Toss counts as a melee attack, so each hammer hit will arc (for fairly low damage,
since you are lacking the mastery talent (Dream Crusher), but onhits proc off of Hammer Toss...)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:39 pm
Posts: 129
Won my Harbinger game

Also killed Atamathon. Fight went something like this:

Disabled Reflective Skin with Spellhunt Remnants.
Walked into Atamathon, occasionally pausing to turn on a regeneration infusion or Torrent away a burn.

Apart from Storm Conduit[Which I'm still convinced is ridiculous], the class seems pretty balanced. Good melee damage, especially versus groups, but very little mobility and limited damage reduction. One thing is that the class is pushed pretty heavily towards stacking healmod like no tomorrow, for a couple reasons:

1: Storm Conduit.
2: The fact that their generics give you a bunch of heal mod already, through Mist and Endurance.
3: Both Light and Fungus scale well with heal mod and you'll probably want one or the other.

I also saw very little use for the +physpower/+mindpower talents, but I suspect that's because my build naturally pushed mindpower very high and had no real need for physical power.

I'll probably try a staff Harbinger next, to see just how good the proc damage bonus from staves is and also to investigate the class's natural durability without a bunch of points in Antimagic/Fungus.

EDIT: When starting up my new character, I tried to put my starting Cornac category point in Supercell so I could murder my starting area's hapless denizens with Storm Conduit. The game let me, but Storm Conduit requires level 10 to level. Normally, the game will tell you that you shouldn't unlock a category that you're not high enough level to use and forbid you from unlocking it until level 10.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:25 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:27 pm
Posts: 227
I initially didn't expect much from this one as I had thought this idea would be underwhelming or OP as heck, but this class is actually really fun to play and makes you think differently in a way about things like escort generics. It's also well balanced for the most part, a pleasant surprise I haven't really run into since Deathknight.

One thing is that I'd almost say spawning with Mindstars instead of a two hander may be more fitting, as there are no pips in any kind of weapon style. Thematically a big heavy weapon is better though. Maybe spawn with both?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:16 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 257
Chronosplit wrote:
One thing is that I'd almost say spawning with Mindstars instead of a two hander may be more fitting, as there are no pips in any kind of weapon style. Thematically a big heavy weapon is better though. Maybe spawn with both?
Funnily enough, I added that at almost exactly the same time as you made this post!

I've uploaded version 1.0.3. The main changes are
1. Storm Conduit now has typical mindpower-based damage, instead of basing its damage off of the heal's power - infusions and Fungal Blood didn't strike me as overwhelming (melee still outscales them) but Earthen Beads crits were absurd. There's still "synergy" with Fungal Blood but don't expect it to be overwhelming.
2. Foreshock has been revamped.
Code:
1.0.3:
- Bug fix: The Supercell category is now properly marked as high-level
- Storm Conduit no longer bases its damage off of the heal; instead it uses mindpower and talent level. (Earthen Beads and healing amulets were achieving absurdly high damage)
- Storm Conduit -> Cremate -> Storm Conduit is now quieter
- Cremate itself is now quieter
- Partially un-nerf Fortress of Ruin critical multiplier reduction, slightly nerf Fortress of Ruin defense bonus
- Foreshock is now a mindpower-based area attack instead of a weapon attack
- Harbingers now begin with two mindstars in their inventory (they still start with a battleaxe equipped)
- Minor adjustments to damage/duration/cooldown values
Hopefully another "hotfix" release won't be needed for a while!



Believe it or not, the class wasn't specifically intended to be great against Atamathon, I didn't even think of them until after winning the test character. It just happened by coincidence since 90% of their damage is fire. Doesn't really seem like a problem, since vanilla has plenty of easy ways to kill Atamathon already.

edit: aaaaand I had to upload 1.0.4 because of a description bug.

Channel Cold isn't supposed to work with archery attacks, I just forgot to remove that from the description.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 257
I've uploaded 1.0.5. Not due to any game-breaking bugs, but because I decided to move Arc earlier (and a few minor changes).

The reason Arc isn't tier 1 is to make players learn what the channeling talents do against single targets, before they start using them against multiple targets and compounding Blaze hits. A sort of antepiece. But I think waiting until level 12 was waiting too long, so I made it tier 2 so you get it at level 4.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Graphical God

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
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Location: snowsides
Just to chime in that the Harbinger is really fun to play, especially when you're kinda tired and want to be mainly going bumpity-bump with just the right amount of tactics. Very well done! :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:17 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:39 pm
Posts: 129
Just won my Nightmare Harbinger game

Three deaths, all of which were easily avoidable. Two from seeing if I could clear Dark Crypt[I couldn't] and one from holding down the up arrow key against an archer rare in Vor Armoury.

Went full magic this time, with the Light tree, Arcane Might and Cauterize. Durability was noticeably worse then with Antimagic, but Bathe in Light is still good enough to give lots of shields and healing. Stacked resists of most types[Except Temporal, apparently] to frankly absurd levels while also getting lots of +%damage for fire, lightning and cold. Thermal Focus in particular was good enough that I kept using it even after good tier 5 mindstars started dropping.

Some things I noticed:

-The new Foreshock is pretty good. 9 range, 6 cooldown and 9 turn stun with OK damage and no resource cost is good any way you slice it, especially early on when you might otherwise be reduced to Cyclone kiting. I think it could stand to scale a little less fabulously with talent levels.
-Vortex is in a similar boat, scaling up to a 9 radius with enough points. It still has a high cooldown and Harbingers kind of need a gap closer, but 9 radius is a bit too much.
-The entire Blaze tree is more or less useless beyond one point. Channel Fire has such low damage that Channel Cold and Channel Lightning outdamage it even in large packs[Channel Fire gets up to ~60ish damage at 5/5, compared to ~90ish for Channel cold and ~220ish for Channel Lightning]. Flameheart's small boosts to Willpower and Magic were only useful for fulfilling Light tree prerequisites, even on a build that maxed both stats. Suppressing Fire is actually sort of useful, except that Electrical Disruption is much better against enemies with obscene regeneration abilities. Cremate is the best talent in the tree: The healing is pretty decent and triggers Storm Conduit and the +%fire damage works nice with Flashover. Its still not worth investing in until you unlock Supercell.
-Chill's global speed slow is huge, exceeding 50% with Thermal Focus/Frost Treads. Given how easy it is to apply, that's super good, especially considering the class also has easy access to a strong stun and Thorn Grab's slow.
-Cylone also seems fairly useless, although I'll admit I haven't experimented much with it. You don't get any sources of +%physical damage, which means it lags behind your other procs. Its still good early on for kiting strong but slow enemies, especially in conjunction with Foreshock and it does give you an extra Flashover trigger late game.
-Stonebreaker was useless for me, but that's because neither Strength nor Armour Penetration are useful for mindstar builds. Still doesn't seem like something I'd pick up on a physical meleer, though.
-Mountain Mover, on the other hand, is egregiously terrible. Now that Foreshock uses Mindpower, the only possible use for Physical Power is the Disarm talent you can get from worried loremasters. Even then, a Strength build would have high enough physical power that rescaling would make the gain from this talent insignificant. So its utility is reserved for a mindstar/staff build who wants the ability to consistently use a single talent you get from an escort that disarms for 2 turns at its base level.
-Flood Controller, on the other hand, is actually pretty useful for builds that don't max both Wil and Cun, since most of the class is mindpower based. On my aborted staff build run, this added a fair bit or damage.
-Countershock actually becomes worse as you level it up, turning it from a finnicky cross between a Wild Infusion and a Healing Infusion to being akin to using Electrical Disruption on yourself. At level 1 though, its pretty good in combination with "free" beneficial effects like Premonition Shield or Resolve or Torrent's fire ward.
-Torrent itself is excellent, because of how well it scales with levels and also that Flameshock and Burning Hex can both be purged by it.
-Electrical Disruption also scales super well[10 range, 5 effects removed and 5 cooldown at level 4], so much so that the fifth level is literally useless without the Thunderfall mace or a mastery amulet.
-The class struggles against enemies with high resall or damage mitigation sustains that apply to each source of damage individually. This is because they have no in built resistance penetration and no way to deactivate sustains. Luckily, I didn't encounter any enemies that combined high damage with annoying resiliency, but one Mindslayer orc mage-hunter took an obnoxiously long time to kill. I also had trouble with radiant horror rares, but I blame that more on wielding a mindstar that did fire damage then on Flashover not being able to be toggled.
-The class synergizes really well with mindstars, to the point where I think they're the most viable option. Having Mindstar Mastery unlocked at 1.3 mastery is huge: The only other class that has that is Oozemancers. I'd suggest moving it to 1.2 or maybe even 1.1 mastery to keep other options open.
-By contrast, the Staff Combat tree is pathetic. This isn't really your fault, but staff builds are pretty terrible as it stands. Maybe have some class features trigger on spell hit/crit at reduced power? This has potential problems with some items that give Chain Lightning or whatever, but I think its something that would make the class more versatile without making the current strongest build more powerful.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:12 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 257
Arcvasti wrote:
-The new Foreshock is pretty good. 9 range, 6 cooldown and 9 turn stun with OK damage and no resource cost is good any way you slice it, especially early on when you might otherwise be reduced to Cyclone kiting. I think it could stand to scale a little less fabulously with talent levels.
It's already changed to a fixed radius of 3 in 1.0.5. Foreshock is basically a bandage for early game melee problems (notice how almost every melee class has a tier 1 stun talent) and I hope to get rid of it when the fabled melee rebalancing occurs.
Arcvasti wrote:
-The entire Blaze tree is more or less useless beyond one point. Channel Fire has such low damage that Channel Cold and Channel Lightning outdamage it even in large packs[Channel Fire gets up to ~60ish damage at 5/5, compared to ~90ish for Channel cold and ~220ish for Channel Lightning].
Channel Fire does less damage than the other two because of 1. how it compounds in packs, 2. sharing a damage type with Flashover (thus you're more likely to be stacking +fire damage than +cold or +lightning damage). I might have nerfed its damage too hard though.
Arcvasti wrote:
-Cylone also seems fairly useless, although I'll admit I haven't experimented much with it. You don't get any sources of +%physical damage, which means it lags behind your other procs. Its still good early on for kiting strong but slow enemies, especially in conjunction with Foreshock and it does give you an extra Flashover trigger late game.
Cyclone's damage intentionally falls off later because later is when it starts giving you extra Flashovers and extra chances to activate talent on hit (nature/mindpower) items. I'm still not satisfied with the design of it but it's not useless.
(Fun fact: Cyclone is also the reason that Blaze has light radius on it, because otherwise players would use Cyclone to locate out-of-LOS monsters in the early game, and that's super goofy and awkward.)
Arcvasti wrote:
-Mountain Mover, on the other hand, is egregiously terrible. Now that Foreshock uses Mindpower, the only possible use for Physical Power is the Disarm talent you can get from worried loremasters. Even then, a Strength build would have high enough physical power that rescaling would make the gain from this talent insignificant. So its utility is reserved for a mindstar/staff build who wants the ability to consistently use a single talent you get from an escort that disarms for 2 turns at its base level.
The formula for melee damage (before talent modifiers etc) is:
(0.3*(physpower+statbonus)*((sqrt(weapon basepower/10)-1)*0.5+1))^1.04
statbonus is just your stats multiplied by the weapon's stat multipliers, so for a silly fixedart dagger with "55% Str, 35% Dex", it's simply 0.55*str+0.35*dex.
At 1.3 mastery, Mountain Mover gives 15.6 physical power per talent level. If your effective physical power is already 80, this is still 3 more effective physical power per talent point. If you care about your weapon damage, that's pretty significant IMO. Of course, psiblade and staff damage are both pretty bad by melee standards, so if you're using those you might not care.
Arcvasti wrote:
-Countershock actually becomes worse as you level it up, turning it from a finnicky cross between a Wild Infusion and a Healing Infusion to being akin to using Electrical Disruption on yourself. At level 1 though, its pretty good in combination with "free" beneficial effects like Premonition Shield or Resolve or Torrent's fire ward.
Not convinced by this; if it removes 5 beneficial effects then that means you had 5 detrimental effects. If you use it at level 1 with 5 detrimental effects then it only has a 1/5 chance of removing the one you want to remove.
Arcvasti wrote:
-Electrical Disruption also scales super well[10 range, 5 effects removed and 5 cooldown at level 4], so much so that the fifth level is literally useless without the Thunderfall mace or a mastery amulet.
Oops, scaling oversight. Next version I'll change it so that 5.2 -> 6.5 does something. Monsters don't tend to stack large numbers of beneficial effects, so increasing the number of effects removed alone isn't attractive enough; that's why the cooldown decreases a lot (but maybe it gets too low).
Arcvasti wrote:
-The class struggles against enemies with high resall or damage mitigation sustains that apply to each source of damage individually. This is because they have no in built resistance penetration and no way to deactivate sustains. Luckily, I didn't encounter any enemies that combined high damage with annoying resiliency, but one Mindslayer orc mage-hunter took an obnoxiously long time to kill.
All intentional weaknesses of the class (especially the lack of builtin ways to deactivate sustains). Well, except for mage-hunters taking forever to kill. Usually their antimagic shield fails an equilibrium check pretty quickly...
Arcvasti wrote:
I also had trouble with radiant horror rares
should've leveled Suppressing Fire after all :P
Arcvasti wrote:
-The class synergizes really well with mindstars, to the point where I think they're the most viable option. Having Mindstar Mastery unlocked at 1.3 mastery is huge: The only other class that has that is Oozemancers. I'd suggest moving it to 1.2 or maybe even 1.1 mastery to keep other options open.
-By contrast, the Staff Combat tree is pathetic. This isn't really your fault, but staff builds are pretty terrible as it stands. Maybe have some class features trigger on spell hit/crit at reduced power? This has potential problems with some items that give Chain Lightning or whatever, but I think its something that would make the class more versatile without making the current strongest build more powerful.
I'm not sure about this yet. "Regular" weapons do more damage than mindstars, and there's a non-negligible number of ridiculous fixedart weapons both early and late. (I probably shouldn't have put mastery on Thunderfall since its ranged attack is already incredible for this class). As for staves, the procs damage bonus applies to channeling talents and Flashovers resulting from them, and you get a fat % damage bonus too. In my tests staves usually offered the highest overall damage output as long as you keep your accuracy up, despite the obvious scaling discrepancy between melee and combatTalentMindDamage.
The trade-off, of course, is that Leaves Tide is incredible, so mindstars are still attractive despite doing worse damage than other weapons. (Also it's a bit weird that raising Mag is probably worse than raising Dex with staves on this class, but that's pretty hard for me to change...)

Also the entire weapon balance for this class is thrown off by the existence of one extremely broken fixedart lol (Destala's Scales)

The Blizzard slowing is hard to tune with the amount of other things that can inflict Slow (and sometimes overwrite good Slows with worse ones...). Do remember that a 50% slow results in a 33.33% reduction in global speed, not a 50% one. I might have to come up with a different effect.

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:11 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:39 pm
Posts: 129
minmay wrote:
Arcvasti wrote:
-The new Foreshock is pretty good. 9 range, 6 cooldown and 9 turn stun with OK damage and no resource cost is good any way you slice it, especially early on when you might otherwise be reduced to Cyclone kiting. I think it could stand to scale a little less fabulously with talent levels.
It's already changed to a fixed radius of 3 in 1.0.5. Foreshock is basically a bandage for early game melee problems (notice how almost every melee class has a tier 1 stun talent) and I hope to get rid of it when the fabled melee rebalancing occurs.


Ah, didn't think to check the new version. That sounds much better.
minmay wrote:
Arcvasti wrote:
-Mountain Mover, on the other hand, is egregiously terrible. Now that Foreshock uses Mindpower, the only possible use for Physical Power is the Disarm talent you can get from worried loremasters. Even then, a Strength build would have high enough physical power that rescaling would make the gain from this talent insignificant. So its utility is reserved for a mindstar/staff build who wants the ability to consistently use a single talent you get from an escort that disarms for 2 turns at its base level.
The formula for melee damage (before talent modifiers etc) is:
(0.3*(physpower+statbonus)*((sqrt(weapon basepower/10)-1)*0.5+1))^1.04
statbonus is just your stats multiplied by the weapon's stat multipliers, so for a silly fixedart dagger with "55% Str, 35% Dex", it's simply 0.55*str+0.35*dex.
At 1.3 mastery, Mountain Mover gives 15.6 physical power per talent level. If your effective physical power is already 80, this is still 3 more effective physical power per talent point. If you care about your weapon damage, that's pretty significant IMO. Of course, psiblade and staff damage are both pretty bad by melee standards, so if you're using those you might not care.


I guess I don't really know how the heck weapon damage formulae work in this game. 3 physpower per level still doesn't sound too impressive, but all of the other talents in Supercell are class defining, so having one of them be less flashy is probably fine.

Minmay wrote:
Arcvasti wrote:
-Countershock actually becomes worse as you level it up, turning it from a finnicky cross between a Wild Infusion and a Healing Infusion to being akin to using Electrical Disruption on yourself. At level 1 though, its pretty good in combination with "free" beneficial effects like Premonition Shield or Resolve or Torrent's fire ward.
Not convinced by this; if it removes 5 beneficial effects then that means you had 5 detrimental effects. If you use it at level 1 with 5 detrimental effects then it only has a 1/5 chance of removing the one you want to remove.


That works the other way around too. If I really want to keep my Heroism up, then level 1 Countershock has only a 1/5 chance of removing it. I guess that the drastically lowered cooldown and extra healing are straight upgrades, even if the effect removal can be a mixed blessing.

minmay wrote:
Arcvasti wrote:
-The class struggles against enemies with high resall or damage mitigation sustains that apply to each source of damage individually. This is because they have no in built resistance penetration and no way to deactivate sustains. Luckily, I didn't encounter any enemies that combined high damage with annoying resiliency, but one Mindslayer orc mage-hunter took an obnoxiously long time to kill.
All intentional weaknesses of the class (especially the lack of builtin ways to deactivate sustains). Well, except for mage-hunters taking forever to kill. Usually their antimagic shield fails an equilibrium check pretty quickly...


It was only really the mindslayer one[Which was a High Peak spawn] that was a pain, since it had very high Wil and filtered all damage through psi shields first. Still, if its intended, then I'll withdraw my complaints. Dispersion gloves/Spellhunt Remnants/Mana Clash exist and so does Temporal Form, so its not like there's no way to get around the class' weaknesses.

minmay wrote:
Arcvasti wrote:
I also had trouble with radiant horror rares
should've leveled Suppressing Fire after all :P


Wait, healmod affects healing from affinities? Never knew that. So there is one situation where Suppressing Fire works and Electrical Disruption doesn't. I always thought Primal Infusion was worse then a normal phys wild, but I'll have to try it out with lots of healmod one of these days...

minmay wrote:
Arcvasti wrote:
-The class synergizes really well with mindstars, to the point where I think they're the most viable option. Having Mindstar Mastery unlocked at 1.3 mastery is huge: The only other class that has that is Oozemancers. I'd suggest moving it to 1.2 or maybe even 1.1 mastery to keep other options open.
-By contrast, the Staff Combat tree is pathetic. This isn't really your fault, but staff builds are pretty terrible as it stands. Maybe have some class features trigger on spell hit/crit at reduced power? This has potential problems with some items that give Chain Lightning or whatever, but I think its something that would make the class more versatile without making the current strongest build more powerful.
I'm not sure about this yet. "Regular" weapons do more damage than mindstars, and there's a non-negligible number of ridiculous fixedart weapons both early and late. (I probably shouldn't have put mastery on Thunderfall since its ranged attack is already incredible for this class). As for staves, the procs damage bonus applies to channeling talents and Flashovers resulting from them, and you get a fat % damage bonus too. In my tests staves usually offered the highest overall damage output as long as you keep your accuracy up, despite the obvious scaling discrepancy between melee and combatTalentMindDamage.
The trade-off, of course, is that Leaves Tide is incredible, so mindstars are still attractive despite doing worse damage than other weapons. (Also it's a bit weird that raising Mag is probably worse than raising Dex with staves on this class, but that's pretty hard for me to change...)

Also the entire weapon balance for this class is thrown off by the existence of one extremely broken fixedart lol (Destala's Scales)


The thing with mindstars is that they essentially require no extra investment because you want Wil and Cun already for mindpower and crit chance. With normal weapons or staves, you want at least one, maybe two more stats on top of still wanting Wil and Cun. My aborted staff build mostly ignored Dex due to misgivings about accuracy rescaling, which probably explains a lot about why it flopped. Still haven't tried a physical weapon Harbinger. Thunderfall did look pretty ridiculous due to giving +0.2 mastery to your two workhorse categories, high damage procs and also having a ranged attack. Dunno about Destala's Scales being overpowered for this class, at least not when there are so many other good artifact cloaks[Wrap of Stone comes to mind].

minmay wrote:
The Blizzard slowing is hard to tune with the amount of other things that can inflict Slow (and sometimes overwrite good Slows with worse ones...). Do remember that a 50% slow results in a 33.33% reduction in global speed, not a 50% one. I might have to come up with a different effect.


Every time I think I understand this game's speed system, I find something like this. I do think that the global speed slow contributes heavily to the classe's survivability and any status that replaces it would have to be similarly helpful for reducing enemy damaege.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:47 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
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Hopeful suggestion: If not already done/considered (I think I'm using the latest version of everything involved but there's also some screwy things happening lately so I'unno), let cyclone be toggled. If you were going to get real sexy, it could be filtered, based on, say, enemy rarity.

... at the absolute least for the infinite dungeon. Right now pacifist challenges are basically impossible unless you just straight up don't invest in the cyclone tree, and particularly the first talent of the same name. Headhunter ones are vaguely more viable but it's still freakishly difficult to keep cyclone from murdering something that fails the challenge. It'd be rather nice if that wasn't happening, hehe.

E: Also, the blizzard slow thing is... basically ideal? Maybe drop it like 5%, make sure it's capped instead of scaling with anything past tlvl 5. The big thing there is that it's the same sort of slow randart melee slows use, so it either more or less makes that bit of kit stats worthless (which is your goal as is, if you want people to use it), or it makes that particular talent of the blizzard tree massively unappealing (anything melee wants that 60% slow by the end game, and it's frankly probably a contender with the entire tree if that t4's slow is too low).

55% is 5% below the normal slow cap said equipment is limited by, so it's in a pretty sweet spot. Slightly less slow, but pseudo-ranged and opening your itemization for other bits and bobs. I'd probably say as low as 45% would be a'ight, but below that at lest personally I would stop putting even a single point in the slowing talent, if I bothered to unlock the tree at all.

E2: Ah, though if you're worried about the defensive aspect... don't be. While the range slow is nice, the melee range slow is much more important for a melee character, and anyone (with more than two or three non-weapon item slots, anyway) can get an equivalent slow, so long as the item gen isn't being hilariously cruel that run. Don't really look at it as plus or minus survivability vis a vis the slow itself, but rather as whatever it opens up itemization wise -- it's not a 55% slow at the end of the day, but a 5% slow malus that lets you add 60+% daze/blind/gloom/etc. Which is something definitely worth a 5/5 investment.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:27 pm
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A couple of notes about playing the class that I've figured out:

-Your racial talents matter a lot more with this class. Because everything is passive, abilities people tend to take for granted are not present here. Talents like Grace of the Eternals. Dominant Will, or Wrath of the Woods may be the whole reason for picking a race. Infusions also tend to mean a lot on a Harbinger, so Ogre may get some mention (especially if you get something like Shantiz The Stormblade that ups your talent tree mastery). Unfortunately, this talent setup also means that racial talents like Timeless or Highborn's Bloom aren't that great.
-Tinkers is extremely useful for Harbinger and you have the generics to spare. Given that you only have a few talents to activate, schematics people usually pass with abilities imbedded may actually get some use if one wants to actually invest in a generator.
-Cyclone may sound puny on paper, but combine this with Bathe in Light; if you have problems with mobs healing this helps to negate that. You can also catch escaping enemies and "kite" with it to wear down mobs before investing in Arc.
-Don't ever forget to invest in the healmod reduction of Suppressing Fire. Stuff like Luminous Horrors will eat you alive otherwise if you don't at least have 1 pip in there.
-Antimagic sounds appealing as you have the Mindpower and the resource is more or less dedicated to your shield, but synergy is somewhat hard to find outside of Resolve (minus making it work with the shield up). Fungus does have plenty with Mist and Storm Conduit though.
-Your range isn't awesome outside of Cyclone and your stun, and though you do have ways of bringing people in only Fault (outside of racials) can bring you in range to a mage that's pelting you or will get you in position for Channel Cold's beam. Movement infusions should be a top priority. Rocket Boots also help here.
-A Physical Wild is still very much important even with Countershock; because of how many activatable talents you have, it's very likely that a stun will put it on cooldown. Also the damage reduction serves as a beneficial "dummy" it can take away as opposed to better effects like your regeneration.
-Crits are a big deal as outside of your channeling you only have Flashover to add big amounts of damage and Cremate crits. Halfling or Shalore may be worth it for this alone.
-Flashover is a lot like Corona in that any crit can set it off. It's not as abusable as Harbinger doesn't have multi-hit talents, but keep this in mind with stuff like the Light tree.
-Prodigies: Keep in mind that you have no resources to manage whatsoever, Fatigue means nothing to you and ICCTW is almost useless here. Unfortunately Range Amplication Device does next to nothing for you too. Elemental Surge may actually be worth mentioning for once due to all those elements hitting at once. Every crit has a good chance to activate something. Keep in mind that channeling hits with melee attacks, so Flexible Combat is a bit more appealing if you want more of those.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:46 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
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Countershock is instant, stuns can't put it on cooldown. (You probably want a wild anyway, though.)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:09 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:27 pm
Posts: 227
minmay wrote:
Countershock is instant, stuns can't put it on cooldown. (You probably want a wild anyway, though.)

Yeah, you're right. Whoops. :P

Having one still is needed though, I agree. If only so you don't need to sacrifice what few good effects you have to get rid of a Pin or something.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:37 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
Posts: 1457
Ehehe, I'd disagree pretty heavily that ICCTW if nearly useless on harbingers. The fatigue is, but that's honestly pretty true for near everyone interested in using it except fairly niche builds (I think the only time I've actually considered it for the fatigue lock is for comboing with the range amp). Where it's sexy for 'em is paired with either superpower or pain enhancement system. Causes a fairly significant damage spike across the board... superpower probably more consistently, but PES is forever a face wrecker and hefty defense boost as well, and being a will/cun class means you end up critting all the things forever so PES is as up as it can get these days.

Probably worth mentioning, if yeh didn't notice, that on nature or mind hit talent (generally on set artifacts, but if you're playing with the extended rantdart properties addon that includes basically everything) carrying equipment is disgusting on the 'binger. Your everything is both a nature and mind power, and as near as I could tell just about everything, but especially cyclone, can trigger them. Had an acidfire 10% on one piece of kit at one point, and pretty consistently covered more or less the entire screen in acidfire puddles. All sorts of nasty for the critters.

As for range outside cyclone... technically you're limited there, but in practice I found a 4/5 or 5/5 fault/vortex* handled pretty much everything without much or any trouble, particularly when paired with Like the Wind. The lowish CD on 'em and basically screen wide range effectively meant anything I couldn't jump to, I could pull in. Extra mobility stuff to make it easier to reach out and touch people never really hurts, though.

* Lower risk dungeons I would occasionally just set vortex to autouse on visible enemy. Good chunk of the time most of the level would die before autoexplore even recognized something was there :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:06 pm
Posts: 2
Hi, this is an interesting class, but I found trouble with an Escort quest. It looks like the Psionic Maelstrom damaged and killed the "Injured Seer".

I am running 2 other add-ons which might be a factor: tome-hz-escorts- (makes the escort party follow your character closely), tome-select-your-escorts- (choose your escort missions; probably not this one as it is not supposed to have any effect once the quest is accepted).

Please let me know if there is a way to continue using your Harbinger mod with these other add-ons and still do Escort quests.


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