ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:12 pm
Posts: 245
Quote:
- I have begun testing the old classes in "Nightmare" difficulty. I feel like I've fleshed out "Normal" enough that I can start examining mechanics for a harder difficulty.


Oh. Well then. That might explain why I've been so god-awful at these. I play Nightmare by default and Madness if I want a challenge.

Time to go take a Warhound through Normal I guess

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:01 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm
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@PseudoLoneWolf
Yeah... It can't be helped. It wouldn't be prudent to build a class from scratch on Nightmare difficulty. I have to work my way up there-- More so than a player has to. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:34 pm 
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Wyrmic

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Makes sense! Had I stopped to think about it, I would have been playing this in Normal the whole time, but I didn't think about it because I never really change my difficulty off of Nightmare except for a few isolated incidents.

I guess you'll be happy to know that Minotaur was doing pretty well in Nightmare when I played it. Haven't tested it since the balance changes though. Bump attacks have always consistently been absolutely garbage on every species though, barring Minotaur for obvious reasons. I started up a Warhound this morning on Normal and it's been a much more enjoyable process so far, I can actually deal damage occasionally. Dine and Dash still seems like it's going to be the MVP of the build, but we'll see. I'm excited to pick up a hunting pack.

That being said I'm still only level 3, so lemme get back to you on that. I'm under the assumption that the trees we saw in the spoiler, "Flickering Beast" and "Dreaming(?) Beast" are ones that I'll find later? They don't seem to be in the locked trees list.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:20 am
Posts: 15
nekarcos wrote:
@teraunce
No problem-- That's an error I've already detected. It will be gone when the new version comes out.

I'm using the new version. I still get the error.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm
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@teraunce
Are you using an old character? It might be some old information.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:12 pm
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@teraunce are you using addons that add extra damage types? I installed Pepper Pack (which adds Sound as a damtype) and was getting a similar error. Disabling it fixed the problem. I notice you have a whole load of addons active, if you just want to play properly while you wait for nekarcos to fix this, I recommend removing/disabling anything that adds extra damage types.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:49 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:20 am
Posts: 15
nekarcos wrote:
@teraunce
Are you using an old character? It might be some old information.

Nope, it's a brand new character.
PseudoLoneWolf wrote:
@teraunce are you using addons that add extra damage types? I installed Pepper Pack (which adds Sound as a damtype) and was getting a similar error. Disabling it fixed the problem. I notice you have a whole load of addons active, if you just want to play properly while you wait for nekarcos to fix this, I recommend removing/disabling anything that adds extra damage types.

I'm not sure if any of those I have installed added any damage types.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm
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@teraunce
Yeah, it's always hard to say if an error is an add-on conflict or not... Does it still happen without any other add-ons active?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:09 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:43 pm
Posts: 238
From what I see, it might be the pesky ID500 error again.
I got the same one several times (at least I think it was the same error.)

Try disabling Infinite500 and then try again (with a new char maybe)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:37 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:20 am
Posts: 15
nekarcos wrote:
@teraunce
Yeah, it's always hard to say if an error is an add-on conflict or not... Does it still happen without any other add-ons active?

It was Infinate Dungeon 500. By the way is there a reason random escort missions always fail? It only happens when playing as a dragon.

Edit Reason: I am bad with TLA's apparently. Original TLA was nonsensical.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm
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So, a bit of a post-release commentary about "Myths"...

One of my biggest concerns so far are the state of balance concerning Myths.
This has been a feature I have been meditating on for a VERY long time, and have hesitated so long because the exact "dynamic" of HOW and WHEN enemies spawn in Tales of Maj'Eyal is a VERY big deal.

To put this into perspective, here are a few subtle (albeit "obvious") rules that Tales of Maj'Eyal spawning follows:
- A zone's "level permittance" is based on the player's level upon entry of the FLOOR-- Not the ZONE! This is both to continue challenging a player who is leveling up quickly, as well as allow you to approach zones in any order you like WITHOUT gimping your total EXP gain (more or less).
- "Hatchlings" are ONLY allowed to spawn if the zone's level would permit enemies of level 8 or higher. "Drakes" are allowed to spawn at 14, and "Wyrms" are allowed to spawn at 25.
- "Rare" enemies (regular enemies with class talents) are NOT allowed to spawn into the world until the zone permits enemies of level 4 or higher.
- This one's my favorite: Every so often, you'll find a "Tiny Brown Mouse" in a high level zone that is only Level 4-- This is because they are NOT allowed to be a level any higher than 4 (but they're allowed to occupy a high-level slot).
- Zones DO have a minimum and maximum level cap-- However, it will NOT be afraid to spawn any enemies that are within the level permittance (IE: "Ureslak the Prismatic" at Level 35+, or "Worm That Walks" at Level 25+).
- Though you may not have noticed: Enemy talent levels scale with their current level. This is why Rogues and Assassins don't seem to learn Deadly Poison until later in the game.


... So, why do I bring up all of this technical mumbo-jumbo? Because the spawning of Myths is controlled by MY OWN logic, and DOES NOT follow these various rules that Tales of Maj'Eyal uses to regulate the difficulty that the player faces (with exception to the myth's level and talent levels).

My spawning logic is simple, though crude: Each myth has a "spawn condition" that is checked upon every enemy that is spawned after level generation. These conditions can include the enemy's proximity to "something", the presence/absence of "something", and so forth. If the condition is met, the enemy is removed and the Myth is placed there instead. Oh, and of course: It will never replace Unique or Rare enemies-- So don't think you can get off the hook lucky.

BECAUSE Myth-spawning logic works as such, it is ENTIRELY possible that, in a bout of random happenstance, every single possible myth can spawn on the same floor in the same place at the same time, whilst the complete opposite could happen: Not a single myth could ever show up in an entire playthrough. If you will, Myth-generation is based on how the game's enemy-generator feels, but DOES NOT follow the rules of Level/Zone/Rarity restrictions.

There is only a few exceptions to this rule for myths:
- "Dangerous Myths" CANNOT spawn in places that are considered as "Safe" (IE: Anywhere you can unlearn your talents, such as towns).
- "Myths", in general, CANNOT spawn in Tier 1 zones (Trollmire, Ruins of Kor'Pul, Heart of Gloom, etc...).
- "War Hound" (because it requires various Myths to occur) has special treatment which allows it to FORCIBLY spawn each one (without relying on random-generation). The conditions for doing so... I won't say.
- Like all "Uniques", a Myth can only ever show up in a playthrough once, and will never show up anywhere else after that.


... So, now that I've prefaced what I wanted to say, I can finally say it, and are going to:
I have not determined how "balanced" their spawning is, so there is the distinct possibility that they could cause a great deal of trouble for players (*glaring at Dokatt*). I am eager to hear people's experiences with encountering these myths so that I could have a better idea of how enjoyable/frustrating their presence is in a playthrough. If it turns out that there's no trouble and it's collectively agreed that they're fun. I could easily consider including the other myths in each of the other Avatar's playthroughs as well.


Long story short for those TL;DR: "Myths", though tested, are still possibly imbalanced, so please give feedback! LOTS of it!

... Whew!


Edit: Remembered one more thing: "Myths" cannot show up in any zone that would normally be impossible to revisit, so no Temporal Rift, no Dark Crypt, no Tempest Peak, no Charred Scar, etc...

Also, to give you an idea of how Myths spawning works, I'll tell you the conditions for Calicule spawning:
Calicule ~ The zone has ONLY 1 "Animal/Canine", and that character is a "wolf".

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:28 am
Posts: 331
Location: Eyal
Oh. I missed the upsate. Must play now.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:51 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:20 am
Posts: 15
@nekaros Is it intentional that all escort quests break when using your added races?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:42 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:28 am
Posts: 331
Location: Eyal
They aren’t breaking for me. What about them is breaking?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:03 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:20 am
Posts: 15
Ok so the Midnight addon is broken when yours is also loaded, and only the other addon's changed quest rewards for escorting lost Sun Paladins and Anorthil. Specifically it is erroring out on "data.reward_types.sun_paladin.types["celestial/light"] = 0.8" for some reason. Very odd incompatability.


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