ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:49 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:39 am
Posts: 164
I tried this, great fun!

I have some questions:

1) why is the first talent such a one-point-wonder? Investing more points only shortens the cooldown period. A very modest speed increase (1%?) per point would at least do something.

2) it stands to reason that if Naloren love being in the water, living in some monster's Wet effect should have a beneficial effect as well?

3) Personally, I'd love for the 4th talent to have an incentive to spend a category point there. How about 'at level 7 the Wet effect follows you around' or something like that?

4) The Merchant doesn't stock artifact whips/tridents - and random artifacts are not to be found in that type.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:13 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Jurriaan wrote:
I tried this, great fun!

I have some questions:

1) why is the first talent such a one-point-wonder? Investing more points only shortens the cooldown period. A very modest speed increase (1%?) per point would at least do something.

2) it stands to reason that if Naloren love being in the water, living in some monster's Wet effect should have a beneficial effect as well?

3) Personally, I'd love for the 4th talent to have an incentive to spend a category point there. How about 'at level 7 the Wet effect follows you around' or something like that?

4) The Merchant doesn't stock artifact whips/tridents - and random artifacts are not to be found in that type.


Thanks! And I have a couple answers :D

1)The talents are largely modeled after the other elven races and other racials in general. The first talent for most of the races is like this. One point gets you an ability that scales with a stat and further points only reduce the cool down. I agree that makes them kind of one-point-wonders, but that has the upside of not requiring you to commit a lot of generic points. And the cooldown reduction is significant, it might be worthwhile if you end up with extra generic points.

2)I had considered doing something with the Wet effect, but it's fairly uncommon in the game. Without making their racials all focused around Wet it did not seem like it would be worthwhile. I could give them some kind of Wet resistance since it does stand to reason that the effect should not impair them. Something to consider.

3)As with the first talent, most other 4th tier racials are talents that only have their cooldown reduced by further investment. This talent gives you a lot of mobility and slaps a hefty debuff on the enemies. Again, as with the first, investment is not necessary to make it strong, but putting some points in if you can spare them wouldn't be a waste either.

4)That I will definitely have to look into. Both whips and tridents should be randartable, and the merchant just has boss drops so he should have the ability to generate them, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean he will. Could be bad luck, but I will check into it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:57 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:39 am
Posts: 164
Well, I just found one (!) tier 5 whip, at level 41 now, just returned from the east to slay the backup guardians. No randart (orange) whips found anywhere...

By the way, I have a strong suspicion the 4th talent with 5 points invested says radius 6 but on casting it just right of my player icon I see 7 wet squares to the right of the player, and 5 squares to the left of the player. Radius 6 does not compute :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:07 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Jurriaan wrote:
Well, I just found one (!) tier 5 whip, at level 41 now, just returned from the east to slay the backup guardians. No randart (orange) whips found anywhere...

By the way, I have a strong suspicion the 4th talent with 5 points invested says radius 6 but on casting it just right of my player icon I see 7 wet squares to the right of the player, and 5 squares to the left of the player. Radius 6 does not compute :-)


I just double checked, whips and trident have the proper tag for generating randarts. I think that one is just bad luck. I will see if I can get some to generate in dev. mode just to make sure, though.

As for the radius, I would have to test it, I guess, the code looks fine. It does scale with talent level, so if you had extra mastery from something that would bump it up, but he description should still match. I'll have to test it to check it out though.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:14 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:39 am
Posts: 164
5 points @ x 1.00:
Attachment:
shot1.jpg
shot1.jpg [ 33.26 KiB | Viewed 2461 times ]


gives (on the first turn of casting it, the chainmail to the left was from a monster killed before casting it:
Attachment:
shot2.jpg
shot2.jpg [ 192.24 KiB | Viewed 2461 times ]

which is radius 6, I guess, but it looks pretty enormous.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:41 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 186
This is a really cool addon idea, now I know what to do when I feel like trying to use exotic weapons. It's so awkward in game that I imagine outside of that one trident that people never use exotic weapons.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:49 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Amphouse wrote:
This is a really cool addon idea

Thanks!

Amphouse wrote:
It's so awkward in game that I imagine outside of that one trident that people never use exotic weapons.

Yes, it is pretty much the case that Exotics are completely ignored unless you are specifically building toward Pride of the Naloren, and that takes a long, long time to pay off. I didn't want this to be the only reason to go for Exotic Mastery since whips and tridents are tied to the Nalore heavily in the lore. I like the idea of having a mastery for only a couple of types of weapons because you are essentially trading more power for a more limited variety of useful drops, but in vanilla ToME those drops are extremely rare for Tridents and almost non-existent for Whips (there are 5 or 6 in the whole game).


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:36 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Jurriaan wrote:
I tried this, great fun!

4) The Merchant doesn't stock artifact whips/tridents - and random artifacts are not to be found in that type.


Ok, this is now fixed. Big thanks to House Pet for his post regarding this particular scenario. This add on wasn't broken by Embers because I never got him to create my items in the first place, but apparently I would have had to change it even if I had. Regardless, he will now carry them. Note that these will not be found under his "Weapons" option, but rather a new option: "Whip or Trident".

Also, I can use Steam again, so I uploaded the add on there, as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:33 am 
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Cornac

Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:05 pm
Posts: 31
nsrr wrote:
Also, I can use Steam again, so I uploaded the add on there, as well.


Great news - not yet seeing it on the workshop but as soon as I can find it there I'll track it down and sub to it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:51 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Ravenholme wrote:
nsrr wrote:
Also, I can use Steam again, so I uploaded the add on there, as well.


Great news - not yet seeing it on the workshop but as soon as I can find it there I'll track it down and sub to it.


Hmm. It's in my workshop... but I don't see it in the list of ToME workshop files. I just updated Prowler and added that to the workshop as well, and it is showing up. I have a couple tweaks I meant to implement in this patch that I forgot in my haste to get the Merchant working, so I will push an update here shortly and hopefully that will bump it on Steam.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:03 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Middle of Nowhere
nsrr wrote:
Ravenholme wrote:
nsrr wrote:
Also, I can use Steam again, so I uploaded the add on there, as well.


Great news - not yet seeing it on the workshop but as soon as I can find it there I'll track it down and sub to it.


Hmm. It's in my workshop... but I don't see it in the list of ToME workshop files. I just updated Prowler and added that to the workshop as well, and it is showing up. I have a couple tweaks I meant to implement in this patch that I forgot in my haste to get the Merchant working, so I will push an update here shortly and hopefully that will bump it on Steam.


Ok, only one tweak for now. I reconsidered the other, at least for the time being. Looks like the add on is showing up on the workshop now, though.

v0.2.3
Using Lash with only an offhand whip will now properly apply the offhand damage multiplier.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:02 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:38 pm
Posts: 287
I have a Naloren Archmage, and I put a point in the second race skill, and I did not get a point in Armor Training, nor unlocking Exotic Weapon Mastery. I didn't close and open the level-up screen before I spent all my points, but I presume this doesn't matter. Should I ask stunt to add the point in Armor Training and the unlock of the Exotic Weapon Mastery category, or is it possible to correct the bug with an updated mod even if I've already chosen the skill?

Also, Naloren Guard Training is spelt incorrectly (the Guard is spelt "Gaurd"), I wonder if this results in it not working properly?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:33 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Middle of Nowhere
I'm pretty sure Stunt doesn't fix problems caused by addons. He has enough on his plate as it is.

You should get the point in Armour Training as soon as you take the first point in Guard Training. Reopening the dialog is only neccesary for Exotic to show up.

Had you already learned Combat Training when you took the talent? If you haven't trained it yet you will have to check your passives in your spell book to see if you have the talent.

Unfortunately I don't think any update could fix this retroactively. I will take a look into this after work tonight. I need to update the hook that loads whips and tridents for the Lost Merchant, anyhow.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:42 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:38 pm
Posts: 287
Okay, so Armor Training doesn't show up on the level-up dialog but it is still added (confirmed in my game). It must be same for Exotic Weapon Training (confirmed: I can equip whips, so I guess it's working).

Is the incorrect spelling (Naloren Gaurd Training instead of Naloren Guard Training) something you can fix? I would guess not, since it may make existing games not use it properly.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:12 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Steven Aus wrote:
Okay, so Armor Training doesn't show up on the level-up dialog but it is still added (confirmed in my game). It must be same for Exotic Weapon Training (confirmed: I can equip whips, so I guess it's working).

Is the incorrect spelling (Naloren Gaurd Training instead of Naloren Guard Training) something you can fix? I would guess not, since it may make existing games not use it properly.


Glad it's working.

You can always equip whips and tridents, as long as you meet their requirements, mastery just improves the damage you will do when wielding them. If you wan to add points to those talents you will have to learn the Combat Training skill line. It can be purchased by any (I believe) class that does not start with it from any of the weapons shops in Last Hope.

The spelling can and will be fixed, thank you for pointing it out. I just have been at work all day :)


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