ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:15 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
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Tempesting is a one trick pony.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:23 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:55 pm
Posts: 708
I'd go the route of having Hurricane have a chance to trigger even if the daze is resisted.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:09 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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HousePet wrote:
Tempesting is a one trick pony.
Indeed.
grayswandir wrote:
I'd go the route of having Hurricane have a chance to trigger even if the daze is resisted.
That's still the one trick.

So long as we're improving Air/Storm, let's diversify by giving some tools beyond just that one trick. This new thing, whatever it is, will be balanced by making Hurricane weaker.

Some ideas:
  • Blinding Flash - your lightning attacks have a chance to inflict Blind as well as Daze
  • Thundershock - your lightning attacks have a chance to inflict physical damage which can push your enemies away
  • Brain Shock - your lightning attacks can disrupt beneficial Mental effects, inflict Brainlock, and disrupt non-spell Sustains

Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:03 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:55 pm
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I like the blind idea. What if you gave lightning spells a radius 2 blind on hit that always triggered (except maybe not for thunder storm) and lasted for a single turn? The idea being that you can put down a blanket of lightning spells to keep your foes blinded, but as soon as you stop firing they can see again.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:34 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:28 pm
Posts: 393
I really like the Blinding Flash idea, as blind is a very useful status effect, and fits with Air/Storm's tendency to harm/blast the crap out of enemies. I still think it'd be good for Hurricane & spells supported by Tempest to be able to proc on stun/daze-immune enemies somehow.

Does Hurricane do enough damage currently (when it works) to merit a reduction in damage in conjunction with improved versatility? I'm wondering because I inevitably compare Air & Storm to Fire & Wildfire, and I don't really see any downsides to Wildfire.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:36 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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grayswandir wrote:
I like the blind idea. What if you gave lightning spells a radius 2 blind on hit that always triggered (except maybe not for thunder storm) and lasted for a single turn? The idea being that you can put down a blanket of lightning spells to keep your foes blinded, but as soon as you stop firing they can see again.
It'd be a lot simpler to just blind those who you hit with your Lightning damage spells -- and that would not risk putting the targets in double jeopardy.

Any great reason to do the more complicated thing? :)

malboro_urchin wrote:
Does Hurricane do enough damage currently (when it works) to merit a reduction in damage in conjunction with improved versatility? I'm wondering because I inevitably compare Air & Storm to Fire & Wildfire, and I don't really see any downsides to Wildfire.
I think it does, and my plan is to reduce the top damage by ~33%, but I think that reducing the top damage by even -50% would still result in a lot of ass being kicked due to the way the damage stacks when you hit a crowd. In my limited experience, Hurricane is more brutal to crowds than Burning Wake.

I may be wrong, though, and I'm very open to a numerical comparison.

--- Change Summary ---

Thunderstorm - change the sustain effect to NOT always proc against a single target; to NOT draw mana every turn (reduced effect -> reduced price), and to grant some bonus Physical knockback damage to your Lightning, Chain Lightning and Shock spells.
- proc specifics: find all targets in range, randomly pick one, 30% chance to trigger, loop until no more targets or until maximum targets are hit. This makes Thunderstorm a bit nicer to the player (and less effective vs. solo bosses), but the thunder knockback more than makes up for that against bosses, since the knockback happens before the Daze chance.

Hurricane - reduce Hurricane damage, add Blind chance.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:48 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:45 pm
Posts: 888
If Hurricane is such a massive part of a Storm AM's damage, it might be best to spread it out among their other spells like Nova/CL/etc. The current changes are interesting and good though, maybe the bonus Phys damage on Thunderstorm is enough.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:30 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:28 pm
Posts: 393
First of all, I want to thank everyone taking the time and effort to discuss and propose changes based on my request! I really appreciate the work you guys are putting into this! <3!

Please keep in mind that Burning Wake and Hurricane procs have two very different purposes:
Burning Wake's draw is not damage, but the buff removal on enemies & debuff removal on the player & friendlies.
The point of Hurricane is to do tons of damage to single and multiple targets alike. It's more brutal to crowds than Burning Wake because Hurricane was designed to melt face, and Burning Wake is more of a smart purge effect with some token damage tacked on because it's fire.
I think Storm was designed to be more focused on damage, rather than the immense utility that Wildfire offers.

I'm a bit confused on your proposed changes to Hurricane. You're reducing the damage somewhat, and making it give your lightning spells a chance to blind in addition to its current function? Does that mean the 10-turn Hurricane effect would continue to not proc on stun/daze immune enemies, and that the newly-added blind chance is the benefit that makes up for Hurricane's current shortcoming?

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Mewtarthio wrote:
Ever wonder why Tarelion sends you into the Abashed Expanse instead of a team of archmages lead by himself? They all figured "Eh, might as well toss that violent oaf up in there and see if he manages to kick things back into place.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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malboro_urchin wrote:
I'm a bit confused on your proposed changes to Hurricane. You're reducing the damage somewhat, and making it give your lightning spells a chance to blind in addition to its current function? Does that mean the 10-turn Hurricane effect would continue to not proc on stun/daze immune enemies, and that the newly-added blind chance is the benefit that makes up for Hurricane's current shortcoming?
Yes, my plan is to not touch the Daze-to-Hurricane proc dependency, but instead to make a separate debuff (Blind) which procs at the same time as the Daze attempt.

The other buff part is making Thunderstorm a decent early alternative or late-game augmentation to Hurricane, by handing out bonus Thunder damage (Physical damage + Knockback). Guaranteed Knockback could make Shock a lot more viable.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:55 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:28 pm
Posts: 393
Doctornull wrote:
malboro_urchin wrote:
I'm a bit confused on your proposed changes to Hurricane. You're reducing the damage somewhat, and making it give your lightning spells a chance to blind in addition to its current function? Does that mean the 10-turn Hurricane effect would continue to not proc on stun/daze immune enemies, and that the newly-added blind chance is the benefit that makes up for Hurricane's current shortcoming?
Yes, my plan is to not touch the Daze-to-Hurricane proc dependency, but instead to make a separate debuff (Blind) which procs at the same time as the Daze attempt.

The other buff part is making Thunderstorm a decent early alternative or late-game augmentation to Hurricane, by handing out bonus Thunder damage (Physical damage + Knockback). Guaranteed Knockback could make Shock a lot more viable.


I like this. The idea of Thunderstorm incorporating the physical force of a peal of thunder into the lightning bolts emanating from the archmage really appeals to me. The extra physical damage + knockback should not only help safeguard the archmage from melee threats, but it'll also help to somewhat stabilize lightning's chaotic damage range a little.

I just realized something that'd be helpful: the ability to destroy in-flight projectiles via lightning, kind of like Shantiz the Stormblade. Does Feather Wind effectively protect the archmage from projectiles as it is? If so, then this won't be necessary.

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Mewtarthio wrote:
Ever wonder why Tarelion sends you into the Abashed Expanse instead of a team of archmages lead by himself? They all figured "Eh, might as well toss that violent oaf up in there and see if he manages to kick things back into place.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:09 pm
Posts: 157
Off topic of Lightning Mages, but how does Exotic Weapons Mastery fit into 'Awesome' weapon mastery modifications?
Warrior escorts and Legacy of the Naloren both say they give EWM - but I haven't tested what actually happens.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:55 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Orangeflame wrote:
Off topic of Lightning Mages, but how does Exotic Weapons Mastery fit into 'Awesome' weapon mastery modifications?
Warrior escorts and Legacy of the Naloren both say they give EWM - but I haven't tested what actually happens.
It is on the side, intact and ignored.

I should probably just have Legacy of the Naloren and the Warrior escort modify Greatweapon Mastery.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:13 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:09 pm
Posts: 157
Doctornull wrote:
I should probably just have Legacy of the Naloren and the Warrior escort modify Greatweapon Mastery.

Please do! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:10 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
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Orangeflame wrote:
Doctornull wrote:
I should probably just have Legacy of the Naloren and the Warrior escort modify Greatweapon Mastery.

Please do! :)
Done.

Basically I just adapted Exotic Weapons Mastery to behave correctly (to handle Tridents, Axes, Swords and Maces). Warrior Escort and Legacy of the Naloren both behave correctly, and it's pretty neat that Legacy of the Naloren now buffs all 'big' melee weapons.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:00 pm 
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Higher

Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:44 am
Posts: 45
I like everything about this Mod but the poison talent changes. Could you please add an option to make it back to vanilla?


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