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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
Strongpoint wrote:
Why only -10% fire resist? Why not keep it consistent with NPC and do -50% fire resist that will be noticeable... -10% is basically nothing. It doesn't force player to change strategy in any way.

I do care about consistency, but only up to a point.
This is after all also a 'rework' - so I'm being consistent in the 'other'direction, by also changing NPC trolls - they're not very interesting. Or challenging, really.
I felt 50% vulnerability was simply too much, considering fire a common element too.
Perhaps 20% or even 25% might be better, all think considered.
Still don't think stone trolls should get that, although perhaps lowering their speed to 80% could be an idea.

Quote:
I dislike that first racial talent scales with talent level, that inconsistent with other first racial talents

It is inconsistent...and that's intentional! I don't like how most activated tier 1 racials only lower cooldown with TL. So I do want this to scale with talent level, although I might change how.

Quote:
1 life regen + 1% heal mod aren't far away of being worth generic points by itself, but potential +20 life regen + 20 % heal mod doesn't look THAT strong if you consider that in 1.05 with five class talent points will grant +12 life regen, my problem that you get that anyway as a free bonus...because all current racials would be worth taking even without that bonus

I think you're right on this part.
And yes, the Quick Metabolism change was one of the reasons why I thought the life regen wouldn't be too crazy, relatively.

Now, as for the point of free bonuses is for the race to be fairly powerful - especially early on - and 'different' so it's not just like playing a superstrong human/dwarf.
I do like the idea of races providing more 'scaling'benefits and putting that on talents looked good, but I'm having second thoughts - perhaps, to make it so the regeneration/armor/extra is nice, but not overpowered and doesn't make the talents 'mandatory', I could make it be gained for free at level up...different amounts though.

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Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:27 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:33 pm
Posts: 212
Your trolls have a huge amount of hitpoints and that minority of enemies will do more damage still don't turn them in yeeks.
10% isn't noticeable, 25% is barely noticeable, 50% is something that will force player to change strategy in some situation... 25%? That's nothing if you have way more hit points than your average cornac


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:05 pm
Posts: 151
StarKeep wrote:
I'm... not understanding any part of those posts spiral.
I'm not stopping people from playing, or saying this race too strong.
I'm pointing out a glaring oversight.



Doubling their Physical Resist eh? That'll be helpful against those Melee Rares.
55% of their giant health pool seems like a nice change. Offers a large opening to escape or heal up still, without essentially doubling your effective survival.





Not sure what you dont get about 99% of the users not caring if other people use Marauder trolls or not....Or Troll mages for that matter.

Its a single player game, and none of the achievements mean anything really.


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:05 pm
Posts: 151
Strongpoint wrote:
Your trolls have a huge amount of hitpoints and that minority of enemies will do more damage still don't turn them in yeeks.
10% isn't noticeable, 25% is barely noticeable, 50% is something that will force player to change strategy in some situation... 25%? That's nothing if you have way more hit points than your average cornac




When you get two shotted by luminous horrors playing as a Shadow well.......25% penalty can be an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:48 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
Sorry for the delay but I'm busy with other things , so release will likely be next week :( , though it should be a BIG improvement.

Basically in addition to fixes and some slight nerfs, the big change is moving the 'extra subrace bonuses'from talents to level up..(of course they will be way smaller). It's an even more unusual mechanic but I don't think it's wrong and I like the numbers. And it makes the talents less of a 'must get', even if they are still pretty good(especially the new Trollheart)

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Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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 Post subject: Re: [1.0.4]Race: Trolls
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
UPDATE AND RELEASE!

Many, many fixes/rebalances/tweaks and different mechanics.
Also tried to better match graphics to player tile, and support double weapons(not sure if it works though). Most equipment should look decent-ish.

Not throughly tested but the worst bugs of the previous release should definetely not be around.

http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/trolls/trolls-1


Edit: This is DEFINETELY not going to be compatible with older savefiles, sorry.

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Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
Code:
stack traceback:
   [C]: in function 'error'
   /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:151: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134>
Lua Error: /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:114: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:151: /data-trolls/talents/troll.lua:92: attempt to index field 'eff' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
   /data-trolls/talents/troll.lua:92: in function 'trigger'
   /hooks/trolls/load.lua:10: in function </hooks/trolls/load.lua:6>
   [string "return function(l, self, data) local ok=false..."]:1: in function 'triggerHook'
   /mod/addons/Spellsword/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:595: in function 'onTakeHit'
   /mod/class/NPC.lua:243: in function 'onTakeHit'
   /mod/class/interface/ActorLife.lua:31: in function 'takeHit'
   /mod/class/Actor.lua:2142: in function 'basetakeHit'
   /mod/addons/druid/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:46: in function 'takeHit'
   /data/damage_types.lua:347: in function 'defaultProjector'
   /data/damage_types.lua:557: in function 'projector'
   /data/damage_types.lua:857: in function 'projector'
   /engine/interface/ActorProject.lua:198: in function 'project'
   /data/talents/spells/fire.lua:52: in function </data/talents/spells/fire.lua:39>
   [C]: in function 'xpcall'
   /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:146: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134>
   At [C]:-1
   At [C]:-1 error
   At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:114 fct
   At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:120 targetMode
   At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:175 plain
   At /engine/KeyCommand.lua:83


Random happened when trying to cast a spell at a Stone Troll Farportal Boss.
After a few tries, it went though.

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<mex> have you heard the good word about archmage?
<mex> I'm here to tell you about your lord and savior shalore archmage
<mex> have you repented your bulwark sins yet?
<mex> cornac shall inherit the Eyal


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
Uh, I think I've seen this before. Should be possible to fix. Remember which negative effects the troll had on it by the way?
Basically the likely issue is the negative effect list that could be decreased wasn't generated properly...

Edit: Or it might just be that it should be self:removeEffect(eff[2]) rather than self.eff[2] ... I will check more throughly tomorrow.
Other than that, things working fine? Were the nerfs too big?

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ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
They still feel fine, though I still haven't gotten around to trying out the 3rd talent change.

Their regen not being locked to talents does give some nice build freedom.

_________________
<mex> have you heard the good word about archmage?
<mex> I'm here to tell you about your lord and savior shalore archmage
<mex> have you repented your bulwark sins yet?
<mex> cornac shall inherit the Eyal


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:55 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
StarKeep wrote:
They still feel fine, though I still haven't gotten around to trying out the 3rd talent change.

Their regen not being locked to talents does give some nice build freedom.

I DEFINETELY will re-upload tomorrow btw, since if I understand this error it means that the 'decrement negative effects' will NEVER trigger from Trollheart.
And the way it works is just like it reads - in case it's not obvious, increasing TL lets it trigger more than once per turn. Up to 3 times at TL 5.5, think spending a cat point should let you trigger it 4 times.

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ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
Uploaded, please redownload.
Basically the issue was that it lowered duration of negative effects fine, but gave errors when it had to remove an effect(because dur == 0).

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Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:38 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
Update AGAIN because I noticed a terrible bug, which I'm surprised people didn't report yet...EVERY actor was getting the regeneration bonus at level up!

So please redownload again and sorry for the issue :(

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ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
No release and likely won't happen soon, as I have other things to do.

However, my current plans, as always feedback is good:
1. Since some people brought up forgetting to use Trollfury(I do that myself and I made the talent!)...what if it autotriggerered when life < 50%? I think it would be pretty appropiate, espeially for NPC

2. Planning a troll brawler/zerker unique that will possibly show up in the Daikara, similar level range(maybe slightly lower)as Burb. Would have a very-high(maybe 100%)chance of dropping something like a necklace or belt of skulls/trophies, granting moderate bonuses to physical/spell/mindpowers and small bonuses to some other stuff.
If worn by a Troll would give +0.1 or +0.2 mastery.

3. More graphical cleanups.

4. Maybe change Trollbrawn. From 10% per base level to 5% per adjusted level(that will be possible when 1.0.5 comes out).
But some other minor bonus could be added, like +1 STR & CON(although scaling with that talent level is an issue).

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ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:09 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:29 am
Posts: 703
Location: Turtlemire
If it isn't too complicated, perhaps turn Trollfury into a passive, that actually activates itself, when you first deal damage?

It would help solve problems with enemy trolls wasting theirs as well.

_________________
<mex> have you heard the good word about archmage?
<mex> I'm here to tell you about your lord and savior shalore archmage
<mex> have you repented your bulwark sins yet?
<mex> cornac shall inherit the Eyal


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:18 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:01 pm
Posts: 1067
StarKeep wrote:
If it isn't too complicated, perhaps turn Trollfury into a passive, that actually activates itself, when you first deal damage?

It would help solve problems with enemy trolls wasting theirs as well.

That is an idea, and not TOO complicated...I'll consider it. I don't want to boost NPC Trolls too much, it's ok if they waste their fury once in a while - well, not quite a waste, they still get a bonus, but small - mostly they shouldn't do that all of the time!

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ToME online profile: http://te4.org/users/zonk
Addons (most likely obsolete): Wights, Trolls, Starting prodigy, Alternate save/resistance system


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