ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:42 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Aaand after one time too many getting instagibbed by taking my own @#$%ing shot to the back, I'm putting my proverbial foot down, in the form of my new Stop Hitting Yourself! addon. This addon beefs up the Slow Motion talent, giving you a passive (raw talent level)x20% chance of dodging self-fired projectiles from archery-based talents.

And I suspect this one might get a bit too much side-eye to go into ZOmnibus...

[edit 2013-11-13 12:19am: Technical info:]
Code:
Hooks:
  Actor:getTalentFullDescription [to rewrite Slow Motion's info() method]
Superloads:
  mod.class.interface.Archery:
    archeryShoot() [to set the tg.selffire field as appropriate]

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Last edited by Zizzo on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:17 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:49 pm
Posts: 190
How about corruptor hitting self with soul rot lol


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:08 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
ajfluffy wrote:
How about corruptor hitting self with soul rot lol

(shrug) Dunno, never played one. (What are they, Hate-based? Vim-based? Won't touch either.) Do Corruptors even get Slow Motion? For that matter, is Slow Motion's primary effect (to wit, actually slowing down projectiles) applied to projectiles other than arrows and sling shots?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:54 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 8:26 pm
Posts: 2000
Location: Nahgharash
Nope, no slow motion. And they're vim based and fun, if a bit rough in certain parts of the games. (They have exactly ONE talent that does something other then blight damage, IIRC.)

I think he was just saying it'd be great to not hit yourself with your own spell. But being hit with own soul rot is something I've never had happen. Own dark flame, sure. But no slow motion talent to build on means you can't do anything about that.

And you really ought to give vim based characters a try. They're actually quite fun, and more challenging then some builds can be, due to the inherent limitations on vim.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:52 pm
Posts: 1884
Huh, I like this.

Having just played an Archer, I can honestly say Slow Motion felt a bit weak as a skill for their use, and this effect is pretty interesting. Getting self-hit protection for an investment in it seems quite good, and it's thematic enough to work.

Definitely an idea I'd like to see make it into the main game.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 165
The worst one for me was walking over my own volcano from Fiery Choker, which caused the Black Robe to hit me with a 600 damage blood grasp.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:49 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:31 pm
Posts: 186
How about modifying this addon to block all self damage, for all classes? You don't need to tie it into a skill, this is an addon we are talking about. (Although you might want to make an exception for disruption shield)

I've had my own horror stories; recently I was playing a corruptor who fired off a blood grasp, got instantly killed by an enemy(so the projectile was still on my square), got revived by the blood of life RIGHT ON TOP OF THE BLOOD GRASP WHICH INSTANTLY HITS AND KILLS ME ARGH. :x


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:33 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Crim, The Red Thunder wrote:
I think he was just saying it'd be great to not hit yourself with your own spell.

(shrug) That would just be a matter of having some suitable self-hit protection talent. Alchemists have Alchemist Protection, Archmages have Spellcraft, and this addon repurposes Slow Motion into one for Archers; perhaps there's a Corruptor talent that could be pressed into service?

Crim, The Red Thunder wrote:
And you really ought to give vim based characters a try. They're actually quite fun, and more challenging then some builds can be, due to the inherent limitations on vim.

And those "inherit limitations" are precisely the problem. Vim is by construction a finite resource, and finite is not enough.

[That and, from my brief experimtation with Reavers, I vaguely remember Vim involving a lot of annoying micromanaging, having to remember to kill every single monster with the Vim-draining talent to recoup the Vim you spent fighting it.]

Amphouse wrote:
How about modifying this addon to block all self damage, for all classes? You don't need to tie it into a skill, this is an addon we are talking about.

That's what was proposed by the last person to bring up the problem, I believe. I vaguely recall the general consensus at the time being something along the lines of, "Pfft, quit'cher whining; you should just learn how to avoid the problem," so I imagine an addon to that effect would get some pretty serious side-eye.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:19 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 8:26 pm
Posts: 2000
Location: Nahgharash
Reavers only spend vim if they cast there spells, which they only do to trip there bonus melee uber-swipe. And that means you always cast a spell for the kill. And ANY vim spell killing a target refunds not only it's own cost, free, but generates vim for the kill. Vim also never degrades naturally, and all vim talents (bar some sustains) are ludicrously cheap. I had no real issues, but even IF you run out due to something like manaclash (the only real threat to vim user's resource) a single use of the drain spell at a decent level is half your vim meter or more. Far more then enough to get vim back and keep fighting (and since drain isn't a bad attack, and proc's that uber-melee swipe; even better.).

For that matter, you have bloodcasting in case having 0 vim AND no access to drain occurs.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I never had to micromanage vim at all. In fact, it practically took care of itself... If this was a long time ago, maybe it worked a bit differently, so really, you should give it a try again. Reavers are fairly easy to build and stomp through the early game so hard. Even the midgame isn't bad, though late game they slow down a bit. (Though a disease build does so much OMGWTF damage under the right circumstances, one shotting anything but the final bosses is a possibility, if you take a few turns to set it up. Granted, that has to be set up right, and set up again for each new enemy you use it on, so it's not an instant kill button, but still.)

Beyond that, I'm not sure that anything fits well, but there existing sustains that coexist on BOTH reaver and corruptor is.... willful tormentor, and overkill. Pretty sure that's it. Reaver also gets ruin. Corruptor gets fearscape, and Flame of Uhr'Rok.

Overkill generates splash damage for anything that 'overflows' the needed damage to kill a target. Seems the closest to an 'aoe' related talent to stick it on, but there sustains all offer them something quite useful as is, adding more almost seems overpowered.

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Currently playing under the name Aura of the Dawn 4 down, 227 to go!
Proud author of Orc Pit Restoration Project, Faction Allies, Dwarven Adventurer addons
SadistSquirrel wrote:
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:18 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Migrating to v1.0.5.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:31 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
So, on investigation, it turns out that gunslingers and psyshots don't actually have access to the Slow Motion talent, :oops: which renders the benefits of this addon unavailable to them. :( For a future version, I'd like to have the addon add self-fire protection to a talent these classes do get, but none of them immediately strike me as an obviously perfect fit, so I'm opening the floor for suggestions. Something in Steamtech/Avoidance would make some sense thematically, but none of the talents therein look like an obvious choice. Evasion would also work, but that's also available to AoA characters, which would be potentially confusing. Maybe something in Steamtech/Elusiveness, but Psyshots don't appear to get that tree.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:40 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:24 am
Posts: 125
For Psyshots, I think "Uncertainty Principle" (the fourth talent in Psionic Fog) would be a good place to put the self-fire protection.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:42 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:27 pm
Posts: 152
Isn't there a talent in generics for Steamtech classes that reduces damage from self hits? I remember one in the escort anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:55 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1413
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Chronosplit wrote:
Isn't there a talent in generics for Steamtech classes that reduces damage from self hits? I remember one in the escort anyway.

[sound F/X: source diving] Ah, yes, Last Engineer Standing, under Steamtech/Engineering. Looks like a good fit (and it's a generic talent like Slow Motion; all the other suggested talents so far have been class talents). Testing looks good so far; barring objections or strong opinions that I should use some other talent instead, I can release this shortly.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:13 am 
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Higher

Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 11:51 pm
Posts: 52
Chronosplit wrote:
Isn't there a talent in generics for Steamtech classes that reduces damage from self hits? I remember one in the escort anyway.


I had thought of that as well, but I couldn't remember if Gunslingers and Psyshots both had access to it ... I presume they do?


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