ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:57 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:43 am
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Zizzo wrote:
DarkGod has been subtly hinting that I should be pushing addons out to the Steam Workshop with some dispatch. :wink:

DarkGod, subtly hinting?
AhahahahhHAHAAHAHAAAA!!!
:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:03 am 
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Master of Eyal

Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:26 pm
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Location: Angolwen
Yes my whip is quite subtle !

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:51 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Doctornull wrote:
Mindslayers also use gems, so the Telekinetic Grasp talent would also be an indication that the character might want to keep his gems.

Now that I have a chance to stop and think, I recall that I asked about that one earlier. lukep's argument AIUI is that a Mindslayer will typically pull a gem out of the transmo chest to Telekinetically Grasp it with about the same frequency (and for the same reason) that, say, a Berzerker will pull a weapon out of the transmo chest to wield it; so Mindslayers will still typically want to transmo most gems, just like Berzerkers will typically transmo most weapons. Unless, that is, your Mindslayer also has Matter is Energy, which uses up gems; then you'll probably want to keep every gem you can get your hands on, and we should thus ignore the "Auto-transmo gems" setting.

Doctornull wrote:
For addon classes, maybe a special "gem_use=true" flag we can put on a talent? Then you can run through all the talents, and if you see any with "gem_use=true" then you can react appropriately even if it's a talent you've never seen before?

Now, this is certainly doable. That would be a minor and non-user-visible change, so I'm gonna give this Steam thing a few days to settle down before pushing something like that out.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:50 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:15 pm
Posts: 17
Since this is already mucking around with the Transmo process, there's a flip side to gems that comes to play.

It'd be nice if things which are convertable to gems (have the "Extract Gem") option on them be extracted rather than T-Mog'd.
So with the option enabled, whenever you exit the T-Mog confirmation window, those items would be extracted, not t-mog'd.

Would save an alchemist from sorting through the loot, picking out the metal bits each time.

If that's too funky, perhaps just a command to "Extract All gems from Chest".

I could see perhaps having a filter to reject artifacts.


Oh, and for non-alchemists, alchemist gems periodically drop, and should go into the chest with the same rules as regular gems.

PS - thanks for the add-on work.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:31 pm 
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Yeek

Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:24 am
Posts: 10
Agreed it would be super awesome if as an alchemist I didn't have to go through 2 steps at end of each level, first transform metals in gems and then rest into gold. If there was a menu option I would always leave it as TRANS-CHEST--->KEEP GEMS when I play alchemist.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:07 am 
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Wayist

Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:15 pm
Posts: 17
Refinement:
Auto-trans, but keep gems for selectable tiers. (I don't need T1-3 gems when I'm mainly working with 4's and 5's)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:02 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
rod wrote:
Since this is already mucking around with the Transmo process, there's a flip side to gems that comes to play.

It'd be nice if things which are convertable to gems (have the "Extract Gem") option on them be extracted rather than T-Mog'd.
So with the option enabled, whenever you exit the T-Mog confirmation window, those items would be extracted, not t-mog'd.

Would save an alchemist from sorting through the loot, picking out the metal bits each time.

If that's too funky, perhaps just a command to "Extract All gems from Chest".

I could see perhaps having a filter to reject artifacts.

Urk... the last time I tried to change the actual operation of the transmo chest, it didn't end well. I could probably get away with adding an extra "Extract gems from contents" entry to the transmo chests's use-item dialog, but that might be redundant wit the "Extract gems" entry added by Use Item Shortcuts.

rod wrote:
Oh, and for non-alchemists, alchemist gems periodically drop, and should go into the chest with the same rules as regular gems.

Now, that much is easy, and has gone out as v2h (not yet on Steam, annoyingly... :evil: )

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:59 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Over on Steam, a commenter has suggested a refinement to this addon, allowing the auto-transmo behavior to be set separately for different gem tiers. Is this something folks would find useful?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:01 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:00 pm
Posts: 783
It's not a bad idea for an addon, but personally I like to save my gems until I unlock the fortress for a quick energy boost. Unless I'm desperate for money earlier, that is.

I agree that Mindslayers need access to gems. You can look for the Telekinetic Grasp talent to to filter them out.

If you don't mind adding some GUI settings, I think it would be good to have a setting to enable/disable gem auto-transmute in general and a a setting for max gem tier to auto-transmute.

This is a slightly different but related issue: would you be able to add an option to disable autotransmuting of gems that get auto-extracted once you upgrade your transmo chest in the fortress? The fortress butler gives you this option once you know the Extract Gems talent and earn enough energy. When you leave a zone, any relevant items in the transmo chest automatically have gems extracted from them and the gems are then auto-transmuted for gold. What I want is an option to make it only auto-extract the gems but not transmute them, so I can use the gems for alchemy and such.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:58 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Effigy wrote:
If you don't mind adding some GUI settings, I think it would be good to have a setting to enable/disable gem auto-transmute in general

There's already a setting for that.

Effigy wrote:
and a a setting for max gem tier to auto-transmute.

Now, this is what I was asking for input about. So a simple maximum threshold would cover what folks would want on this front?

Effigy wrote:
I agree that Mindslayers need access to gems. You can look for the Telekinetic Grasp talent to to filter them out.

Enh, the logic I settled on, as suggsted by lukep, is that talents that consume gems should be the signals to prevent auto-transmo of gems. Keeping gems out of the transmo chest on the basis of Telekinetic Grasp would be kind of like keeping shields out of the transmo chest for Bulkwarks, which would be kind of odd.

Effigy wrote:
This is a slightly different but related issue: would you be able to add an option to disable autotransmuting of gems that get auto-extracted once you upgrade your transmo chest in the fortress? The fortress butler gives you this option once you know the Extract Gems talent and earn enough energy. When you leave a zone, any relevant items in the transmo chest automatically have gems extracted from them and the gems are then auto-transmuted for gold. What I want is an option to make it only auto-extract the gems but not transmute them, so I can use the gems for alchemy and such.

Urk... my track record with modifying the transmo chest's behavior is not great, but you're not the first person who's asked for this, so I'll try to come up with something.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:43 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:00 pm
Posts: 783
I think the max gem threshold setting would be sufficient, assuming you're already filtering out unique gems.

Ah, I didn't see that other post. Adding a setting to change the transmo chest's behavior would be nice, but a new command for "extract all gems" as the other poster suggested might be the easier route.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:09 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
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Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Effigy wrote:
I think the max gem threshold setting would be sufficient, assuming you're already filtering out unique gems.

Oh, yes, that's been in place from the very beginning.

Effigy wrote:
Ah, I didn't see that other post. Adding a setting to change the transmo chest's behavior would be nice, but a new command for "extract all gems" as the other poster suggested might be the easier route.

Certainly from an implementation standpoint it would be. :wink: I've got a preliminary implementation of this in testing at the moment. One wrinkle: how to handle metallic artifacts in the transmo chest? Currently the command unilaterally skips anything with the 'unique' flags, which covers fixed artifacts and possibly randarts. Does this need to be user-controllable?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:27 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:00 pm
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In my opinion, I would never want it to auto-extract unique items. If someone really wants to extract something knowing that the vendor cost is low, they can do that manually. I would say at least half the time the uniques are worth more to vendor/transmute directly. Sometimes worth 20+ gold.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:20 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Effigy wrote:
In my opinion, I would never want it to auto-extract unique items.

Great minds think alike. :mrgreen: That means I can push out v3 with that update and the new tier-threshold setting. Your old yes-or-no setting value should be automatically converted to threshold 0 (ie. no gems) or 5 (ie. all non-unique gems), respectively.

This update also includes another small feature requested by another user: addons can now set the flag 'consumes_gems=true' on talents they define to indicate that the auto-transmo gems settings should be ignored if the player has learned said talents. I even got clever and add marked talent names to the setting description on the fly (I hope...).

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:51 am 
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Sher'Tul

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1345
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
So, it turns out that some tinkers use gems as ingredients — which means that tinkerers probably don't want to put gems in the transmo chest by default. :oops: v3a, just pushed out, adds Create Tinker to the list of talents that will stop gems from going into the transmo chest.

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