ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:23 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1866
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Finally found the 1.7.0 beta release announcement (didn't those use to be announced here on the forum?), so I can start working on the massive job of porting what in retrospect seems like way too many addons — especially with the new localization functionality (which is probably gonna break a lot of the sneaky tricks I was pulling to edit talent descriptions and the like on the fly…). And because I'm clearly a masochist of some sort, :? I figure a non-backward-compatible major version change like this is an opportune time to merge new addons into ZOmnibus and/or ZOmnibus Lite, so I'm soliciting input to see if there's anything anyone would really like to see added.

Currently I have… [counts] 70 released and active addons that are not already a component of either ZOmnibus or ZOmnibus Lite (and, of course, are not themselves ZOmnibus or ZOmnibus Lite); as before, I've categorized them roughly as follows:

Ha Ha, No:

Addons that are fairly obviously too "questionable" to include in either:

Transient:

Addons fixing bugs that I expect/hope to be officially fixed in a future release, or adding features that have been promised to be included in a future release (like Visibly Looted Stalls was), and which thus would have to be clawed back out of ZOmnibus when I eventually deprecated them:

Embers Only:

Addons that require one of the DLCs (Embers of Rage or Forbidden Cults), and thus can't be merged into either without making them DLC-dependent (or without a fair amount of integration effort):

In Too Deep:

Addons that make low-level structural or environmental changes that aren't really amenable to enabling or disabling via game option, and are probably too much of a change to go into ZOmnibus without that:

Maybe Too Tweaky:

My various "class tweaks" addons, which might be too much of a change for ZOmnibus and definitely couldn't go into ZOmnibus Lite:

Questionable:

Addons that I'm not sure about; they could maybe go into ZOmnibus (though it would be a stretch for some), but definitely not ZOmnibus Lite:

Gameplay Altering:

Addons that qualify under some of the reasons for omitting addons from ZOmnibus Lite, like "protection from not paying attention" or "otherwise unavailable information"; they could maybe go into ZOmnibus, but definitely not ZOmnibus Lite:

Ooh, Tough Call:

Addons that might be suitable for ZOmnibus or ZOmnibus Lite, but would probably need a game option to turn their effect on/off:

Sure, Why Not?

Addons that strike me as purely cosmetic or quality-of-life, and/or have game options to turn off their functionality for anyone who doesn't want it, and so should be perfectly fine in both ZOmnibus and ZOmnibus Lite:

So. Any requests?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:43 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 pm
Posts: 681
You know what, i'll make notes on the whole list :)

Ha Ha, No:
Slightly More Adventurous : why not ? it has no impact outside of adventurers anyway and those aren't made to have any semblance of balance and have multiple total invincibility combo without addons already.
Stop Hitting Yourself! : you can't hit yourself with projectiles since several versions already, does the addon do anything still ?

Rest : agree (though question to "Usable BiL" that i don't get, i like getting 3k shields + 3k heal from my enemies and they have BiL more often than me so this addon is making me weaker !)

Transient:
Agree those should/will most likely be fixed.

Embers Only:
Can't really argue with integration hassle ;)

In Too Deep:
Sword-n-Boardin' : super low impact, imo fits Zomnibus
Plot Disarming : super low impact, imo fits Zomnibus
Rest : yeah, no

Maybe Too Tweaky:
Sun Pally is QoL only so should be included, even in Lite imo
Rest : yeah, no

Questionable:
I wouldn't put any of those in Zomnibus.

Gameplay Altering:
Cloak Reminder : would put in Zomnibus
Don't summon while meditating : on the fence, probably would put
Auto-rotate Aura/Shield : no

Ooh, Tough Call:
Rage Quit : would put in Lite
Roguelike Chat Guard : would put in Zomnibus
Alchemist Notifications : would put in Zomnibus
Herald of the Herald : would put in ZOmnibus

Sure, Why Not?
Lite to all (also, Tooltip cleanup, why did i not know this existed !)

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I write guides and make addons too now, apparently

You can go here for a compilation of everything I wrote, plus some other important stuff!

Includes general guides (inscriptions, zone, prodigies), and class guides (Demo, Anorithil, Bulwark, Zerker, Sblade)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:17 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:07 pm
Posts: 133
Agree with pretty much all of Cathbald's thoughts, but I think tooltip cleanup should definitely have the option to turn off, and if roguelike chat guard is included it should be off by default. I'm worried I would mess up dialogs with it on and not realize what was happening for a while.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:02 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:36 am
Posts: 29
I would use Tooltip Cleanup, and the various informational shield displays (displacement shield, retribution) would be nice. (Side request: Can you add a similar absorption status for Temporal Shield?). Seems like those could go in Zomnibus Regular Strength.

EDIT (addendum): It'd be nice to bundle up on the "on the Map" addons as their own (Melinda, Merchant, third one I forgot) instead of separate ones, esp. if you allowed enabling/disabling.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:36 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1866
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Cathbald wrote:
You know what, i'll make notes on the whole list :)

That's the kind of feedback I like to get. :mrgreen:

Cathbald wrote:
Slightly More Adventurous : why not ? it has no impact outside of adventurers anyway and those aren't made to have any semblance of balance and have multiple total invincibility combo without addons already.

(shrug) I usually consider it to be in the same general category as Ignore Race/Class Locks and Ignore Campaign/Difficulty Locks (and not just because they're all playing around in the same part of the code), as the sort of illicit thing that people would side-eye if you used it.

Cathbald wrote:
Stop Hitting Yourself! : you can't hit yourself with projectiles since several versions already, does the addon do anything still ?

Dunno; maybe for Adventurers or characters that buy the Shoot talent in Last Hope without any of the class-specific protection-from-ammo-self-damage talents? If the general consensus is that this addon is no longer needed, I'd probably be inclined to deprecate it.

Cathbald wrote:
(though question to "Usable BiL" that i don't get, i like getting 3k shields + 3k heal from my enemies and they have BiL more often than me so this addon is making me weaker !)

Well, that doesn't happen to me as often. :twisted:

Cathbald wrote:
Sun Pally is QoL only so should be included, even in Lite imo

Fair enough. I probably put it under "Maybe Too Tweaky" in anticipation of eventually doing more class-specific stuff with it, like with the other ones.

Cathbald wrote:
Sword-n-Boardin' : super low impact, imo fits Zomnibus
Plot Disarming : super low impact, imo fits Zomnibus
[…]
Cloak Reminder : would put in Zomnibus
Don't summon while meditating : on the fence, probably would put
[…]
Rage Quit : would put in Lite
Roguelike Chat Guard : would put in Zomnibus
Alchemist Notifications : would put in Zomnibus
Herald of the Herald : would put in ZOmnibus
[…]
Lite to all

[scratches head] Oh my… how long did we say this beta period was going to be? :shock: :?

Cathbald wrote:
(also, Tooltip cleanup, why did i not know this existed !)

(shrug) I don't always make a big deal about addons when I release them. :wink:

Pisastrish wrote:
Agree with pretty much all of Cathbald's thoughts, but I think tooltip cleanup should definitely have the option to turn off, and if roguelike chat guard is included it should be off by default. I'm worried I would mess up dialogs with it on and not realize what was happening for a while.

That brings up another relevant question: would any of the other inclusion candidates need on/off game options? And yes, it should be fairly easy to have those on/off options default to on for the standalone addon and off for ZOmnibus; I already do something similar in Savefile Notes and Wall Clock.

Sinister Stairs wrote:
(Side request: Can you add a similar absorption status for Temporal Shield?).

[sound F/X: source diving] Ah, I see; the Time Shield effect from the Temporal Shield and Time Shield talents would benefit from displaying both its remaining strength and its remaining duration in its status icon, a la Damage Shield. It looks like it would be fairly easy to write an addon for that, and I'd probably file that addon under "Sure, Why Not?" alongside Displacement Tracking, so it could even go into ZOmnibus/Lite immediately, if that would suit.

Sinister Stairs wrote:
EDIT (addendum): It'd be nice to bundle up on the "on the Map" addons as their own (Melinda, Merchant, third one I forgot) instead of separate ones, esp. if you allowed enabling/disabling.

Lumberjack on the Map is the third one you're thinking of. And that last bit is the tricky bit, and why I listed them all under "In Too Deep"; all of those addons pretty much lock in their effects the first time you step onto the worldmap, after which enabling/disabling them might not even be possible.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:32 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 pm
Posts: 681
Quote:
Dunno; maybe for Adventurers or characters that buy the Shoot talent in Last Hope without any of the class-specific protection-from-ammo-self-damage talents? If the general consensus is that this addon is no longer needed, I'd probably be inclined to deprecate it.

Wouldn't matter, all projectiles are now selffire = false, this is not linked to any talent

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I write guides and make addons too now, apparently

You can go here for a compilation of everything I wrote, plus some other important stuff!

Includes general guides (inscriptions, zone, prodigies), and class guides (Demo, Anorithil, Bulwark, Zerker, Sblade)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:19 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1866
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
I wrote:
[sound F/X: source diving] Ah, I see; the Time Shield effect from the Temporal Shield and Time Shield talents would benefit from displaying both its remaining strength and its remaining duration in its status icon, a la Damage Shield.

[sound F/X: testing] Hmm, that actually comes out looking kind of busy:
Attachment:
tshield-display.png
tshield-display.png [ 7.54 KiB | Viewed 223 times ]

Would it be better to use a "fractional clock" display like Displacement Tracking does?

I wrote:
That brings up another relevant question: would any of the other inclusion candidates need on/off game options?

No further feedback on this, so for now I'm improvising. Don't Summon While Meditationg already has an enable/disable option, and so far I've added options for Tooltip Cleanup and Roguelike Chat Guard as requested. Bbased on the presence of an option for Passive Cooldowns, I'm planning on adding options for Displacement Tracking, Curse Levels and Sun Paladin Tweaks, and based on the presence of an option for Store Wish List, I'm planning on adding options for Alchemist Notifications and Herald of the Herald, and possibly Cloak Reminder if I decide to go with it. If anyone has better ideas, speak now, or at least before the 1.7 release. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:52 pm 
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Wayist

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:36 am
Posts: 29
Zizzo wrote:
Sinister Stairs wrote:
EDIT (addendum): It'd be nice to bundle up on the "on the Map" addons as their own (Melinda, Merchant, third one I forgot) instead of separate ones, esp. if you allowed enabling/disabling.
Lumberjack on the Map is the third one you're thinking of. And that last bit is the tricky bit, and why I listed them all under "In Too Deep"; all of those addons pretty much lock in their effects the first time you step onto the worldmap, after which enabling/disabling them might not even be possible.

I forgot Lumberjack because I haven't used it / personally don't see the need for it. I think Lumberjack is even less iffy than Melinda & Merchant, because all the event does is trigger an informational pop-up that the zone now exists; unlike Merchant which forces you into the lair. Now, instead of a pop-up, there's an NPC -- so IMO I don't see that as much a "cheat" as Merchant, which lets you decide when to enter the lair.


Zizzo wrote:
I wrote:
[sound F/X: source diving] Ah, I see; the Time Shield effect from the Temporal Shield and Time Shield talents would benefit from displaying both its remaining strength and its remaining duration in its status icon, a la Damage Shield.
[sound F/X: testing] Hmm, that actually comes out looking kind of busy:
Attachment:
tshield-display.png
Would it be better to use a "fractional clock" display like Displacement Tracking does?

That would be ideal, but what you screenshotted is already an improvement. :)

Zizzo wrote:
That brings up another relevant question: would any of the other inclusion candidates need on/off game options?

Just a thought: Consider moving all the options to their own Zomnibus and/or Zizzo tab in the options menu. You have so many great addons that I use, I no longer know which are standard T-Engine/ToME options, and which are "Zizzo" options. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:37 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
Posts: 1866
Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
Sinister Stairs wrote:
I forgot Lumberjack because I haven't used it / personally don't see the need for it. I think Lumberjack is even less iffy than Melinda & Merchant, because all the event does is trigger an informational pop-up that the zone now exists; unlike Merchant which forces you into the lair. Now, instead of a pop-up, there's an NPC -- so IMO I don't see that as much a "cheat" as Merchant, which lets you decide when to enter the lair.

True; the main reason I wrote it was that wandering around in the area north of Last Hope trying to randomly bump into the invisible lumberjack encounter could get annoying. And yes, of the three, this is the one I'd be mostly likely to add to ZOmnibus, in the spirit of Sword-n-Boardin' or Plot DIsarming.

Sinister Stairs wrote:
Zizzo wrote:
Would it be better to use a "fractional clock" display like Displacement Tracking does?

That would be ideal, but what you screenshotted is already an improvement. :)

[sound F/X: further testing] Yeah, I think this works better:
Attachment:
tshield-display2.png
tshield-display2.png [ 10.43 KiB | Viewed 179 times ]


Sinister Stairs wrote:
Just a thought: Consider moving all the options to their own Zomnibus and/or Zizzo tab in the options menu. You have so many great addons that I use, I no longer know which are standard T-Engine/ToME options, and which are "Zizzo" options. :)

Hmm, I think Nekarcos does that with their Quality of Life addons. Looks like there might be room in the tabs list of the game options dialog for it. What about in the stand-alone component addons of ZOmnibus, though? Should they also put their game options under this [ZOmnibus] tab?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:15 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 pm
Posts: 681
Definitely. Easier to find, and would reduce the number of time i see people say "it's in the options" not remembering they have zomnibus and it's a part of it :lol:

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I write guides and make addons too now, apparently

You can go here for a compilation of everything I wrote, plus some other important stuff!

Includes general guides (inscriptions, zone, prodigies), and class guides (Demo, Anorithil, Bulwark, Zerker, Sblade)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:19 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:07 pm
Posts: 133
Yeah, even the base game's option menu is kind of overwhelming for me, I would definitely appreciate a separate tab.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:30 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:07 pm
Posts: 133
Also looked over the addons again, and the only other one that stands out to me as definitely needing an option is cloak reminder. It seems like it could get annoying when changing zones a lot to test something in dev mode


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