ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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Lokean wrote:
Restart Sustains might be game-altering according to some people, for the same basic reason as low heath popups.

Because of the "you've lost some of your sustains" reminder. Good point, I hadn't thought of that.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:18 am 
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Wyrmic

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Zizzo wrote:
Of those, I think the most obvious disqualifiers are Opt-in Adventurers Parties and Alternate Zones Option; likely also Pragmatic Heroism and/or Prodigious Progress, since they provide information that wouldn't otherwise be available; maybe Tier-1 Short Circuit Option, but I'm not convinced on that one. Any others?

[For reference, this is not to suggest that I have plans to begin wholesale incorporating significantly game-affecting addons into future ZOmnibus releases (absent strong user consensus that I should, of course).]
Vanilla ToME4 no longer hides your life when it's below zero, so Pragmatic Heroism doesn't provide any information that wouldn't otherwise be available. (And hiding your life was pure interface screw unless you took damage while blinded anyway.) For some reason it still hides life on NPCs but the addon doesn't affect that in the first place.

Note that ZOmnibus is de facto already allowed for the weekly adventurer challenge, several of the winning games used it. Alternate zone selection is the only part that really provides an advantage and it's not a very big one.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:17 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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minmay wrote:
Vanilla ToME4 no longer hides your life when it's below zero,

? How long has that been the case?

minmay wrote:
For some reason it still hides life on NPCs but the addon doesn't affect that in the first place.

*blink* Um… yes, it does. That was one of the main reasons I wrote the addon in the first place, in fact. Now, some addons that make extensive changes to actor tooltips have been known to overwrite that change; we ran into that with Plenum a while back.

minmay wrote:
Note that ZOmnibus is de facto already allowed for the weekly adventurer challenge, several of the winning games used it. Alternate zone selection is the only part that really provides an advantage and it's not a very big one.

Huh. I'd have figured Opt-in Adventurers Parties would be the big red flag. Well, at any rate, interest has been expressed in the concept outside the context of the weekly adventurer thing, and the code is pretty much stable at this point, so I'll probably still release it once I'm finished testing it.

So, one more call for opinions. As currently coded, ZOmnibus Lite will omit the following addons from ZOmnibus:
  • Opt-in Adventurers Parties
  • Alternate Zones Option
  • Pragmatic Heroism
  • Prodigious Progress
  • Low Health Popup
  • Restart Sustains
If you think there are others that need to be excluded, now's the time to say so.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:36 am 
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Wyrmic

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Zizzo wrote:
minmay wrote:
Vanilla ToME4 no longer hides your life when it's below zero,

? How long has that been the case?
It was first changed in 2014, then reverted (possibly unintentionally) at some point, and then fixed again on 20 Feb 2017.

Zizzo wrote:
minmay wrote:
For some reason it still hides life on NPCs but the addon doesn't affect that in the first place.

*blink* Um… yes, it does. That was one of the main reasons I wrote the addon in the first place, in fact. Now, some addons that make extensive changes to actor tooltips have been known to overwrite that change; we ran into that with Plenum a while back.
Oh whoops, I'm dumb and did indeed have Plenum enabled. My mistake!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:50 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:46 pm
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Why prodigious progress? I don't see how that changes the game at all unless it does something I don't know about.

I agree with the rest.

I'd argue restart sustains is fine because it only restart out of combat and that is done just as well with autocast except autocast needs a confirmation just in case it tries to do it in combat and that's annoying. But I wouldn't say the slightly smarter restart sustain is game breaking.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:52 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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minmay wrote:
It was first changed in 2014, then reverted (possibly unintentionally) at some point, and then fixed again on 20 Feb 2017.

[checks SVN] Hmm, I released Pragmatic Heroism in January 2015; I may not have noticed that that had changed, or I may just have been taking the descriptions of Last Stand and heroism infusions at their word. Oh well. :oops:

minmay wrote:
Oh whoops, I'm dumb and did indeed have Plenum enabled. My mistake!

`S cool. I was under the impression that Plenum had been updated to work with Pragmatic Heroism, though; I know I made some tweaks for Plenum to use.

Cathbald wrote:
Why prodigious progress? I don't see how that changes the game at all unless it does something I don't know about.

It reveals otherwise unavailable information. In the example I gave earlier, for instance, the two characters I mentioned probably wouldn't have been able to get Cauterize without the information Prodigious Progress provides, because they wouldn't have known what they needed to spam. ["They shouldn't have needed to spam anything" is a reasonable objection, but beyond the scope of this discussion. :mrgreen: ]

Cathbald wrote:
I'd argue restart sustains is fine because it only restart out of combat and that is done just as well with autocast except autocast needs a confirmation just in case it tries to do it in combat and that's annoying. But I wouldn't say the slightly smarter restart sustain is game breaking.

Well, my understanding of Lokean's comment on the subject was that the extra reminder and notification of lost sustains that Restart Sustains provides could be viewed as "protection from not paying attention", in the same way as Low Health Popup. I'm inclined to lean a bit overcautious in this context, since the omitted addons in question can always be used together with ZOmnibus Lite, according to personal tastes. [In fact, my test character is using ZOmnibus Lite and all six omitted addons; no way am I walking around on the worldmap without Opt-in Adventurers Parties active one way or another… :wink: ]

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:53 am 
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Archmage

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Yeah, I get the reasonning for restart sustains, just thought I'd say it anyway :p

For prodigious progress, people CAN just brute force everything!

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You can go here for a compilation of everything I wrote, plus some other important stuff!

Includes general guides (inscriptions, zone, prodigies), and class guides (Demo, Anorithil, Bulwark, Zerker, Sblade)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:46 pm 
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Wyrmic

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Posts: 257
Zizzo wrote:
minmay wrote:
It was first changed in 2014, then reverted (possibly unintentionally) at some point, and then fixed again on 20 Feb 2017.

[checks SVN] Hmm, I released Pragmatic Heroism in January 2015; I may not have noticed that that had changed, or I may just have been taking the descriptions of Last Stand and heroism infusions at their word. Oh well. :oops:
Yeah, it took a while for all the descriptions to be fixed.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:33 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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Okay, I've successfully convinced myself that everything's working (and now is probably the best time to release it, so that I'll have the weekend to put out any brush fires if I'm wrong :wink: :oops: ), so I give you ZOmnibus Lite. For convenience of reference, I'll generally be trying to keep both addons' version numbers in sync, so ZOmnibus Lite's initial release is v15e.3. And while I'm here, I'll add below a couple more Frequently Asked Questions specific to ZOmnibus Lite, so that I can link back to them from Steam.

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Last edited by Zizzo on Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:36 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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Frequently Asked Questions (continued from above):

Why were these particular addons omitted from ZOmnibus Lite?

As noted above, the goal of ZOmnibus Lite is to omit addons that could be viewed as materially altering gameplay. In particular:

  • Opt-in Adventurers Parties and Alternate Zones Option obviously provide means to avoid certain in-game hazards: respectively, worldmap patrols and certain notoriously deadly alternate zone forms.
  • Pragmatic Heroism and Prodigious Progress provide information that would otherwise be unavailable: respectively, the exact hit points of hostiles that are below zero life and specifically what parts of various prodigies' requirements the player has and has not satisfied.
  • Low Health Popup and Restart Sustains will likely be viewed by some as "protection from not paying attention" — the former by interrupting the player's actions when low on life, and the latter by providing prominent signals when the player loses a sustain and a persistent reminder to restart it.

I disagree that some of those addons should have been omitted.

That's a matter of personal taste, certainly. All of the omitted addons can be safely used in conjunction with ZOmnibus Lite, so you can freely mix and match according to your particular threshold of "gameplay-altering".

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Last edited by Zizzo on Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:17 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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Location: A shallow water area south of Bree
sajberhippien wrote:
On another note, would it be okay to make a request for a quality of life change? Specifically, Wards are kind of a nuisance to use now, because they can't be set to auto-use. Would it be possible to separate them into two skills; choose ward and activate ward? That way you can choose a ward that you want to use, and have it on auto-use or at least easily accessible.

We Apologize for the Delay;™ is this what you had in mind?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:34 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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Pushing out v15f for both ZOmnibus and ZOmnibus Lite, with some improvements to Go to Landmark for the Infinite Dungeon.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:01 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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Pushing out v15g for both ZOmnibus and ZOmnibus Lite, with a requested feature for Store Wish List and a small tweak for "Save" Talent/Stat Points.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Uruivellas

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Someone on te4 asked about an addon to display a real-world clock in-game. They mentioned they had not registered on the forums, so I thought I would pass it along and I figured if there was anyone who would be willing/able to look into this, it would be you, and probably a good candidate for ZOmnibus.

Original user blog post: https://te4.org/blogs/1conjohnner/208/05/clock-add

Edit: Hm, link doesn't seem to work. Request was pretty straightforward, though.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:52 am 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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nsrr wrote:
Someone on te4 asked about an addon to display a real-world clock in-game. They mentioned they had not registered on the forums, so I thought I would pass it along and I figured if there was anyone who would be willing/able to look into this, it would be you, and probably a good candidate for ZOmnibus.

Original user blog post: https://te4.org/blogs/1conjohnner/208/05/clock-add

Edit: Hm, link doesn't seem to work. Request was pretty straightforward, though.

Hmm sounds familiar… oh, yes, this one. (You had a spurious '1' in your link. :wink: ) My initial thoughts are:
  • I'm not actually sure what kind of clock they're asking for. In-game time? (is that even a thing?) Wall-clock time? (wouldn't your computer already have a widget for that? I guess if you play full-screen…) Time played?
  • This is actually trickier than it sounds. "Just numbers" isn't the problem; the problem is convincing the UI to draw those "just numbers" somewhere.
  • I feel confident that wherever I put the clock, someone will say, "That's in my way. Could you make it so I can move the clock?", and I doubt my UI-fu is that strong.

I'll investigate. Are there any other similar UI addons that I could look to for inspiration?

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