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ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal • View topic - Tryb's wins: New: Odd Dorf Bulwark

ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Everything about ToME
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:40 pm 
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Thalore

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:50 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:32 pm 
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Thalore

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good job tryble :lol:

https://git.net-core.org/tome/t-engine4 ... d93168ba68


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:18 pm 
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Wyrmic

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You do know if your minions know a talent you don't want them to use, you can order them to set that talent priority to 0, and it will persist whenever you summon the same thing. Also set higher priorities for anything you want them to use as often as possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:49 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:23 am 
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Ok, on further investigation, it seems the only reason I could do that as summoner was I had the summon control talent. Having 1 point in that lets you give orders to any summoned thing, even if not from summoner talents. Having a golem also lets you do that to anything you summon.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:48 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:39 pm 
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Thalore

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I wanted to compare it to my skelly zerker I just won with, and get more info for the I posted. It played a lot differently.
Vaultless Insane Roguelike, with the only gameplay addon being my .

Differences between Antimagic Cornac and Skellington:
Pumping CON to high heaven and wearing healmod gear makes you effectively immortal while regen is up. Bloodbath, regen from gear, fungus, and combat vet provide extreme levels of normal regen, too. I was noting 200+ heal per turn with Vile Life, but Cornac was getting that...even without popping a regen infusion. I was seeing nearly 600+ at the end. PES is hilarious.
Having movement infusions meant I didn't need Never Stop Running, so went with PES. Wow, that prodigy is busted when you have 150+ strength.
I finally tried out heroism infusions, and I really like how they work now. They fill a similar niche as Healing Infusions (I just took a lot of damage and am concerned I might die next turn) and synergize with Unstoppable big time, which is super cool.
Earlygame was easy on skelly, lategame was hard and dangerous, but the reverse was true for cornac.
Without bonus zones like bearscape and poosh (also I forgot to do rift), I ended up going east at a lower level than my skeleton did (39 vs 40).

Notable things:
I ignored fungus until like Lv45. It isn't really important, but is really nice once it's running.
Scoundrel Tree is really, really good on this build. The antispike effect of neutering enemy crits goes so well with ultraregen that I just straight up stopped even looking at what classes randbosses had. Healmod is wicked good when it gets to these kinds of levels. My other addon (which I didn't use on this character) which pumps max life and reduces heal mod, in my opinion, might be a good change for the game as a whole...mass healing really trivializes engagements but exploding instantly is always a concern.
Going antimagic seriously screws with your ability to find good gear. At the very end I was wearing decent randarts all around, but compared to what skelly had, it's hugely worse. I had a very hard time just getting and keeping stun immunity.
That guardian totem artifact really screws with the final bosses. With 5/5 charm mastery it was really giving elandar a hard time. Also spellhunts. I threw two or three spellhunts and two or three antimagic pillars during that fight and it really eased the fight.
Cornac gets tons of points. TONS. Around Lv45+ I didn't really know what to do with points and just threw them around wherever.
Disarm is really convenient for when stun fails.
Got pretty good luck with escorts but terrible with equipment. Only managed stun imm well after going east.
I'm not sure, but I think sudden growth double dips healing mod if you have a regen infusion active?
I skipped so many zones. Crypt, other crypt, underwater place in east, all of high peak, most of prides, desert, elven ruins, moon quest tunnels, that one zone when you teleport to the east, spider tunnels...Hit Lv50 in first pride so why not.

I'm gonna close the character with PES up so the character sheet shows how brutal some of those stats are. It's nuts even though it's only up 1/3rd the time. Also regen and max bloodbath. Check out dat regen!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:24 am 
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Thalore

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:11 pm 
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Wyrmic

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Wait, how did you skip all the prides and High Peak?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:04 pm 
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Thalore

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I didn't mean 'skip' as in literally never going there, but rather avoid all or most of the combat inside.
For a couple of the prides, you can burrow + lightning speed around the edge of the map to the other side, you don't even need to hit the switches, it seems. One of them (the one with the dragons) you can't seem to burrow through the walls so you have to go through it conventionally. Earth Eyes at least will let you spot the switches inside the buildings ahead of time, so you can avoid all the randboss dragons.
For grushnak, Earth Eyes & Track will help you spot the next level stairs and go through rooms without the larger enemy groups.

High Peak is pretty easy; you rarely spawn in sight of hostiles, so a high power track will instantly tell you where the stairs are, since a randboss is standing on them and mousing over that target will tell you if the ground is floor or the next level stairs. You can then burrow through the walls towards it, avoiding battles. Then you aggro the boss outside of LOS somehow, and circle around to go through the stairs without a fight. Repeat until on high peak 10.

Worth noting that dread and banshee type enemies seem to zero in on you as soon as you enter the floor, and teleporting orc mages can alert a lot of enemies if you let them.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:30 pm 
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Thalore

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My goal with this character was to try out a couple of disdained concepts; namely going all in on saves (ignoring immunities) and making heavy use of shield block & eternal guard.
Insane Adv mode (no deaths), vaultless. The only gameplay-changing addon was my , which kinda felt like it was handcrafted to fit bulwark specifically.


Building Saves instead of Immunities
Dorf Bulwark has one of the strongest collections of all save you can get: +50 passively from Dorf, ~30 phys/spell from dorf active racial, ~30 from Daunting Presence, and another 25/70 phys/spell from class. That's a pretty heavy heavy swing in your favor, and that's all before gear comes into play. Yes, the stats are rescaled, but the raw numbers here are huge enough to be telling in the end. You only need +20 over the enemy to reach max benefit.
The growth of your saves on this character is pretty neat. Daunting Presence comes online early, and when it maxes out, Shield Specialist starts up. Then, Power is Money opens up, then Danger Sense. There's decent growth to invest in from Lv8 all the way through to about Lv40 or so, but it's pretty brutal to drop 15 generics for this.
Here are some screenshots of various randbosses and such throughout the run. I snapped SS's whenever I remembered. One or two don't have Intimidation applied and I have Dorf Resilience applied in a few, take note.



The main takeaway is that, well, there honestly aren't a lot of enemies sporting massive power. Given your growth throughout the run, it's really easy to stay way ahead on the power vs save curve. My experience in this run was that I could basically ignore that enemies had detrimental effects at all, for nearly the whole run. By endgame, enemies had caught up enough (no real save boosters in talents after 40-ish) that they could start landing effects sometimes. After getting a few pieces of equipment with all save (I was wearing about +70 all in the end), I'd pulled ahead again until the final battle.

That said, there's a couple scenarios where megasaves don't match up to immunity. One, is that saves carry a minimum 1/20 fail chance, some hits will go through anyway. Second, there are a number of no-save abilities...notably runes, which show up in number in certain Prides. The first problem is partially solved by Danger Sense - an effect you are +20 against but fail anyway is gonna fail 45% of the time thanks to Danger Sense's double check, bringing the save min fail down. The second just sucks, but Bulwark has Unflinching Resolve. Anything that punches through your wall of saves is gone in one or two turns. In practice, this wasn't really anything to worry about.

There's a lot of side benefits of high saves. Necromancer minions can't stun you, corruptors can't hex you, inner demons isn't a thing etc. A lot of annoyances that pop up regularly in normal games you can just act as if don't exist. It's pretty nice.

I think only a few character combos could use saves really effectively: You want a large +all saves in your talents and some kind of cleanse handy (unflinching was perfect) as part of your kit. Then you gotta to make room on gear for saves. Most dwarf classes with Conditioning would work pretty easily.

Blockin'
Block is a lot different than how I remember it in 1.4.9, and the most current bulwark guide has mean things to say about it. Since it's been touched up I went heavy to try it out.
After going a run with it, I think it's pretty good.

Defensively...I don't remember if it worked like this before, but normal Block applies its value to during its active turn. It blocks all damage types except mind, and gets a 50% Block value boost against any element the shield has resistance to. That's a pretty substantial effect, and can effectively be considered a flat damage resist to everything for its active turn. This is a lot better than it seems, since the most dangerous junk in the game isn't single overwhelmingly powerful attacks (although those exist), but rather many high damage hits all at once, each of which will suffer Block reduction. Double turn attacks, Dual wielded flurries, Assaults, telekinetic smashes and so on, are all way, way less dangerous when you deduct hundreds of damage from each of the 3~6 individual strikes. It's nice that the damage prevention is reliable now. Fun fact: This character would have died at Assassin Lord after winning the fight, since the last lingering poison tick would have killed & I had no more healing/cleanse. Instead, I blocked it.

Offensively, counterstrike (looking at its behavior in log files), doubles damage as the tooltip suggests rather than adding a +100% damage modifier as the talent suggests. This means that offensively it's fundamentally always a good idea to Block & Counter, since it allows you to effectively doublecast your heaviest damage talents. Riposte at 4+ grants 3 double damage strikes. That doubles Assault/Shield Slam damage, but other talents get doubled while still leaving Counterstrike up for following strikes. One Block grants three tripled bumps.

Between the defensive & offensive bonuses, I think it's more or less optimal to block all the time. With that said, Eternal Guard brings block uptime to something like 60% and provides what is effectively infinite counterstrikes. Bulwark's super durable, massively so once EG is up. I didn't really take many screenshots, but here's of the kinds of fights I'd just stand around in and slowly beat crowds to death from behind the shield. (this is partly thanks to the anticrowd talent in my mod though)


Misc
With that said, I think it's complete madness to not take a damage-boosting talent like ICCTW or Arcane Might as prodigy #1, bulwark's sheet damage is just completely awful and they get completely shut down by other bulwarks. Grushnak had more armor than I had weapon damage and was effectively invincible. I ran around the world for a while until I collected another +90 damage/APR before reattempting that fight. Even then, I could barely touch him with my shield and relied on Assault and normal weapon strikes.

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