ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:06 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:23 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Hessen, Germany
SB's are actually pretty good in their first levels IMO. You have to leave Trollshaws for Old Forest before lvl 4 though.

The trick is to constantly have shadow combat (1) active and to level quick enough that your regular mana pool lasts until level up, when it refreshes. That means you need higher lvl monsters (which is not a problem due to dirty fighting being trop priority talent, i.e. the monsters' OFFENSE is not the problem) and lower HP monsters than trolls.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:47 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 130
Very interesting to see a decent SB. Gratz to your win BTW! *thumbs up* :)#

However: Why does your dump include your full inventory/equipment? When I press "d" in charscreen, I only get a short version ( beta 10b ) as seen in my dump in this thread. :?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:44 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:23 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Hessen, Germany
Patryn wrote:
Very interesting to see a decent SB. Gratz to your win BTW! *thumbs up* :)#

However: Why does your dump include your full inventory/equipment? When I press "d" in charscreen, I only get a short version ( beta 10b ) as seen in my dump in this thread. :?


Don't ask me, that's what i got :)

Also got 3 lines of main hand crit, it seems to be important ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:57 am 
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Master of Eyal

Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:26 pm
Posts: 10738
Location: Angolwen
Check your error log there might be a bug

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:13 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:17 am
Posts: 371
My dunadan fighter just attempted to kill the wizards...

I save-cheated a couple of times on the buildup to this (only to deal with chain-summoning drakes). Apart from that, I got through everything with care (and the occasional judicious retreat :-) ).

Then the wizards utterly destroyed me. I went for Alatar first, because he looked like a mage, and so I thought I'd be more able to bring him down quickly. Unfortunately, he resisted my stun, and moreover, I could hardly hurt him. With 50% physical resistance and 35% "all" resistance, I was doing about 65 damage on a non-critical hit, and 90 on a critical hit. On the other side of the equation, he's got 7500 hitpoints and is hitting me for several hundred hp with each spell. Oh, and Pallando (with another 7500 hp) is hexing and cursing me.

Maybe I need better tactics (I'm open to ideas :-) ), or a better sword, or a few hundred potions of full healing, but I've got very little idea of how I could win that fight.

I think one issue I have is that there's no dififculty curve leading up to the fight. Each of the wizards has more than twice the hitpoints of anything I'd fought thus far, plus they resist so much that the hitpoint problem is magnified, plus they have much more powerful attacks. One wizard in a regular dungeon would have been a challenge; two of them in open space?

Oh, and I tried to shut down the portals by going to one and using the appropriate orb there, but nothing happened.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:29 pm 
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Reaper

Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 1534
Location: East of the sun, west of the moon
yeah it really isnt quite clear which orb you use to shut down the portal (since this is in the spoilers section, it is the orb of many ways).

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:58 pm 
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Spiderkin

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 3:09 am
Posts: 454
I beat them once with an Archmage, and wondered at the time how on earth a poor warrior could ever manage it. And I think the wizards have been buffed since then. But I sort of like having the blue wizards insanely difficult right now. It's motivation for doing all the side content that's in the works. Similarly, in T2, charging straight for Angband as soon as possible is a recipe for disaster. The downside, of course, is that we don't have all that side content available yet, so winning is problematic for most classes.

Darkgod, any time you're tempted to nerf the end bosses, resist the urge. Instead, add content that allows the characters to become more powerful or versatile. When you've added enough so that a well-prepared hobbit berserker has a reasonable chance of beating the wizards, you'll know you're ready to get out of beta :)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:29 pm 
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Master of Eyal

Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:26 pm
Posts: 10738
Location: Angolwen
A hobbit berserker .. I love the thought :)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Retired Ninja

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 3756
I'll probably roll another one in the next beta ti test out the new talent tree :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:30 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:17 am
Posts: 371
Susramanian wrote:
Darkgod, any time you're tempted to nerf the end bosses, resist the urge. Instead, add content that allows the characters to become more powerful or versatile. When you've added enough so that a well-prepared hobbit berserker has a reasonable chance of beating the wizards, you'll know you're ready to get out of beta :)


One idea that I've seen in other games is to have side quests that weaken the end boss, rather than strengthening you.

e.g. in the final fight, maybe you can use the orb of many ways to travel into each of the portals. Traveling into each portal and defeating the enemies there has two effects: it stops npcs spawning, and it weakens one of the wizards. So, say, if you close the portal of elements then Alatar (?) can no longer cast fire and ice spells. If you close the undead portal than Pallando loses his bone shield.

Anyway, what about a kind of practice boss? Someone you have to face before you get to the blue wizards, someone who is almost as tough, but someone you can run away from. That way people will have some idea of what they're in for, and what standard they need to meet.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:06 am 
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Perspiring Physicist

Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:53 pm
Posts: 1332
I like Repton's ideas, particularly about the practice bosses. Maybe you could meet the two brothers individually as you move through high peak and have them flee at 25% health?

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