ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:36 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 678
I'm playing a higher, now lich, Necromancer.

A few points about the new ID and playing the Necro within it:

1. There are now goals that pop up and offer a really useful range of bonuses, including bonus class and generic talent points (one at a time as far as I can tell), +3 stats, category points (I'm at level 31 and already have two extra category points), and even PRODIGY points. I have two prodigies already (I got my first point at level 16, I think, but couldn't use it until 30).

2. One of the bonus options is the "pacifist" quest, which involves not killing anything at all during the level. It's damn near impossible but I managed one and failed two others. It provides two bonuses, which is pretty great.

The weird part is that I failed on one in which I'm SURE I didn't kill anything. However, I did start the level with minions and they died when I teleported away so I think that counts, unfortunately.

3. The "rush" quests are punitive. Don't even try them. You need the experience.

4. Going lichform caused me to fail an "exterminator" quest, even though I killed everything. Apparently dying, or sort of dying, is an automatic fail.

5. Minions are your best friend here because light radius is at a premium and they guard your flanks. Additionally, combining teleport immunity with Dark Empathy is CRITICAL. The resist all bonus stacks with Thick Skin, et al., and so you can get your minions to be extremely durable. Max it as soon as you can.

6. A wand of clairvoyance is so, so, so freaking useful. I've never found them especially useful in the regular game but in the ID, they're a life saver.

7. Highborn's Bloom and/or Hidden Resources are key. With a third (or fourth? Who knows?) prodigy, I could have both soon enough.

8. Healing... my goodness is it a problem. Finding a good means of reliable healing is still an ongoing issue. I'm relying primarily on the Higher's racial talent (although now that I have Highborn's Bloom, I can use Consume Soul from time to time). With the addition of heal mod and with bonus generics in the ID, HB is definitely worth maxing, and I did.

I'll probably use my next prodigy to pick up the Celestial/Light category. Totally worth it, although with regular bonus generics, I'd love to pick up Conditioning too. Sadly, I'll have to pick one, and Light is far, far better.

9. Shielding... best rune only shields for 200 damage. It's a problem, although I'll now have the Sacrifice shield up and running but the lack of reliable healing is brutal.

10. No gloves with Disperse Magic? You're boned. I got some from a bonus, thankfully.

11. Max both Phase Door AND Teleport. You'll want to be able to pick a direction.

12. Some final thoughts:

Not sure what the point is of giving me gold. You know what'd be great? A town or store... say every 50 levels or so? Maybe a Dwarven down, deep underground, or a shop keeper who sells "special" equipment.

Additionally, I think it would make the gameplay a bit more fun if the difficulty of the levels varied a little... perhaps the average level could drop below yours every once in a while, and spike a bit, every once in a while.

I'd also like an occasional level that's just you and a very tough boss. Have it grant enough experience to level you up but just make it a "challenge" level, perhaps a bonus if you kill it under "x" moves.

You could even throw in familiar quests, such as saving the shop keeper or Celia.

All in all, the new ID is good, not great, but vastly improved. More so, the Necromancer (crippled with talent shortages and scaling problems everywhere) benefits immensely from the new bonuses. At level 31, with at least 5 extra talent points and three extra generics, plus two category points, and a prodigy, the Necromancer is actually pretty solid and I'm not condemned to sniping with CotT (not even using it).

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:11 am 

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
Posts: 1456
Only so relevant to the vanilla game, but it may be worth nothing there's at least one (and I'm pretty sure two or three, though I'm forgetting the rest of them) addon that adds the possibility of shop access to the ID.

Lost City of Vulcus is the one I remember off the top of my head, so if you really want to see some shops in the ID, you might give it a whirl. Hasn't been updated in a good long while and I ain't played ID enough recently to remember if it's still working smoothly with the new stuff, but so far as I'm aware it still works fine in the latest version of T4.

E: Bazaar's another one, actually. Not a traditional shop, but definitely a place to burn gold (at least until you reach a certain level of strength, heh).

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:38 pm
Posts: 287
Infinite Alchemy provides the ability to brew potions in the ID and transmute items to really powerful ones.

Also, shops comes with ... d-level-50

Not sure if those two work fine together - I haven't done ID yet.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 678
Thanks for the tips on the add-on.

I'm at level 54 now, with 10 spare class points.

Sacrifice shield now has a duration of 26, 1 more than its cool-down so I skipped getting Celestial/Light from Worldly Knowledge prodigy in favor of Spine of the World. Now I can ignore physical effects and largely mental effects.

I have ten spare class talents points, just waiting until the cap is raised at level 60.

I have two spare category points with nothing to spend them on. Ogres would be good in the ID, with that extra Category sink by way of an inscription slot.

Another thought would be that perhaps one should be able to further increase mastery at level 60... or whatever. That'd be great!

In general, I'm cruising along now. Healing is still a minor problem but Dark Empathy, when combined with a Phased Door rune that grants temporary resist all, allows me to have two Bone Giants with 95% resist all acting as body guards at all times. Very handy.

Dark Empathy is a vastly underrated talent (at least by me). Minions aren't immortal but they're finally useful. More so, it works with Animus Purge as well so you can get some fairly beastly Husks.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:31 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 678
Level 70:

Shadow Tunnel can get evasion over 100% (I haven't invested the points but I could have). That, combined with Dark Empathy (which is transferring 117% of my saves and resistances) can make for very, very resilient minions.

Two points into Surge of Undeath has proven useful.

Sacrifice shield now lasts for 31 turns and caps damage at 13%, which means that I can keep it up indefinitely, should I choose to do so. In tough fights, I do exactly that.

More than any other class that I know of, the Necromancer benefits from the ID. The extra talent points are hugely useful and the scaling on certain skills, as noted, turns them from "meh" into "hell yeah!"

The Necrotic Aura is up to an 11 radius and decay rate is down 7%, i.e. 3% decay rate outside of the aura. This means that I can auto explore, teleport away, and survive having my sustains shut down. Finally, the Necromancer plays the way it was seemingly intended to play. It's pretty fun now.

I still have healing issues, but at this point, I'm so hard to kill that it doesn't really matter.

In terms of damage output, I've still only invested in the first skill in Celestial/Star Fury, so I have a shortage of damage skills, but it doesn't really matter as my minions are very helpful in this regard. Over time, if I get lucky enough to pick up some more class points (with bonuses, I picked up 7 between level 60 and 70, although only 1 between 50 and 60), I'll invest more.

Fear the Night's radius scales so at level 7, it's up to 11. Super useful! Beyond that, I'm not investing past 6 in any other talents in that category, and of course, Circle of Death is still at 1.

Ultimately, minions act as both a shield and, finally, a means of real damage output. If you get a lich (and once I had three), then you're really in good shape. They do a ton of damage.

I don't know if I can get another prodigy, but if I do, I'll go with the Celestial/Light category as I have few places to put generics in addition to needing a reliable means of healing my minions. If I had that, I really think I'd be in a great shape.

My choice of prodigies was mediocre but it does make gameplay a little easier so I think it's good enough.

All in all, it was brutal in the beginning, frustrating in the middle, but once I reached level 60, I've been been in really good shape. Very little threatens me. At this point, only the occasional anti-magic rare or unique threatens me at all, and only with careless play.

I'm hoping to get to 100.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:07 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 678
Okay, I'm at level 75. Here's my review:


1. Blighted Summoning is excellent as the skeletons can "grab" enemies and now my minions do real damage.

2. Spine of the World... okay. Not sure what would have been better but it's pretty workable. The only physical status effect that I need worry about now is blind, which as a Higher is easy to mitigate.

3. Unbreakable Will... Confusion is usually the first mental affect I get hit with and being able to avoid it is great.

The combined effect is that I can now focus almost entirely on spell power and a bit of resistances. Nothing else really matters.

All in all? I'd grade it a "B."

Key skills:

The entire Necrotic Minions category. I'm at 7/7 on all but Surge of Undeath. I will, eventually be able to stop investing in Dark Empathy, which'll free up future points, but probably not right away. Soon, almost all of my minions will have over 100% resist all (if I summon them after using a phase door rune). More so, my minions are now +8 level to mine and my Necrotic Aura is at 10 or 11 radius. I'm considering adding more to Surge of Undeath soon, it has two now, as I use it at every opportunity... once your minions become resilient, this skill actually gains some value.

Advanced Necrotic Minions? 1/7 on Undead Explosion. 5/7 on Assemble. 7/7 on Sacrifice... 31 duration and 13% damage cap? Yes please. I can now keep it up indefinitely. 7/7 Minion Mastery... want to ensure that you can get a Lich from time to time... it's at 6%.

Grave? Meh. I'm contemplating putting points into it eventually, after tapering off Dark Empathy, but for now, it has nothing in it.

Shades? 1/1/1/5 No real reason to invest in the capstone skill beyond that, yet, and no good reason to invest in anything else.

Nightfall? 7/2/7/7 The extended radius on the third skill is wonderful. I think the global speed reduction on Rigor Mortis is capped at 50%, and as such, I may taper off on that eventually.

Ice? Awful. Don't use it at all.

Animus? 3/4/6/3 This is a late-building tree that I only invested in seriously at a later level. It's solid.

Necrosis? 1/3/1/5. I went Lichform and highly advise doing so. It really can go 1/1/1/5, but I like Impending Doom so I use it more than is necessary. If you're short on points, skip investing there.


Survival: 3/4/1/3... I have generics to spare so I invest in this. Really, had I picked up Celestial/Light, I would have skipped almost all of this.

Conveyance: 5/5/0/0... I could invest more in this but can't really be bothered.

Divination: 1/3/1/6... Mostly just a point sink.

Higher Racials: 6/6/5/5... worth it if you have extra generics, and I do.

General advice:

Cherish every phase door run with a decent resist-all rate. They will come in handy in time.

Sustains come late as you'll definitely have the mana. You can even pick up Vampiric Gift, once you stop investing in some other skills, and that'll help with the healing issues.

The early part of the game is ROUGH but once you get rolling around 25 it smooths out but is still difficult. At level 60, it gets easier, and by 70, you have near-immortal bone giants protecting you so it gets much, much easier.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:47 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 678
Well, I wrapped up the character at level 90. I just deleted him. Zero deaths.


Because I was bored.

Basically, once you can run around with two Bone Giants with well over 100% resist (and I could have easily pumped it up more but even the Runed was at 115%), and a permanent Sacrifice shield reducing any hit to 12%, assuming I ever get hit, which is damn near never, I just lost interest in the repetition.

If the ID had more interesting stuff, I'd have happily kept going, but alas, it does not.

All in all, it was the most fun I've ever had with a Necromancer though. You can really make the most of its underwhelming and class point starved skills in the ID. It finally doesn't suck.

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