ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:48 am
Posts: 149
minmay wrote:
...but there are like 30 classes that are better at AAD abuse...)

Go ahead.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:12 pm
Posts: 170
What is this circular link of pain business with Demonologist? I've never heard of this and searching the internet returns no answers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 257
Link of pain Actor X to Actor Y, and then link of pain Actor Y to Actor X. Either one taking damage will now result in a stack overflow (and cancel the damage). Longer chains work as well. Any class can perform this with The Black Plate and the appropriate supplementary talents (either to use The Black Plate faster or extend the link of pain duration), but Demonologist is by far the best situated to do it since it has the actual Link of Pain talent; it's guaranteed to be able to do it at level 10.
St_ranger_er wrote:
Go ahead.
For classes appearing in this list, I would say that AAD is clearly better with Adventurer, Possessor, Archmage, Paradox Mage, Radiant, Arcane Blade, Temporal Warden, Dark Priest, Revamped Anorithil, Arcanist, Zephyr, Spellsword, Demonologist, Brawler, Sun Paladin, Corruptor, Reaver, Necromancer, Anorithil, Stone Warden, Blood Mage, Alchemist, and Elementist. That's only 23 but there are a few more you can argue.
Static Field + AAD is basically only useful if you have Acera, and requiring a specific fixedart is pretty bad. Wyrmic lacks significant spell-attributed AoE damage which is the primary way of abusing AAD (use stairs to surround your target with AADs then use an AoE spell).


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Thalore

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 157
Where would the revamped alchemist fall on the list?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:02 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
Posts: 257
Probably in the same place. It did buff Channel Staff and early game healing (late game healing basically just breaks even because alchemist bloodstone exists in vanilla), but didn't meaningfully improve the class's other weaknesses, not to mention that it nerfed Explosion Expert's damage bonus. The changes being so minor (i just wanted to get rid of the damn gems) is why I didn't include it on the list. There's a good argument for putting it and vanilla Alchemist above Bulwark instead of below, though.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:30 am 
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Thalore

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 157
minmay wrote:
Probably in the same place. It did buff Channel Staff and early game healing (late game healing basically just breaks even because alchemist bloodstone exists in vanilla), but didn't meaningfully improve the class's other weaknesses, not to mention that it nerfed Explosion Expert's damage bonus. The changes being so minor (i just wanted to get rid of the damn gems) is why I didn't include it on the list. There's a good argument for putting it and vanilla Alchemist above Bulwark instead of below, though.

Yeah, my experience trying it out was that it's actually weaker than Vanilla alchemist overall. It buffed the parts of the game when Alch was strong anyways, and nerfed the lategame damage a bit where they already super fall behind (A lot of this is due to it making throw bomb deal physical damage, and the infusions having very poor scaling). Channel stuff is just so weak that even with a considerable buff it's barely worth mentioning as a damage source. Lot less annoying to play than vanilla Alchemist though.

Alchemist really needs a total overall anyways - they make more sense as a Steampower class to me now that it exists. At the least, making alchemist gems extract them into a normal reloading quiver version of the gem like every other ranged class uses would be a lot less of a headache in normal play.

Personally, Alchemist is stronger than Bulwark, though it's been quite a while since I really touched them, they don't seem to have changed that much. Bulwark is very easy until the Far East, then you jump off a cliff in every category that counts. Alch drop off similarly, but it's not as extreme. Alch just have to throw a bomb and kite until it's off CD, Bulwark can barely disengage if they don't immediately kill something. Alch's escape options aren't amazing but they have more than just a movement infusion if something goes wrong.


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