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ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal • View topic - Odyssey of The Summoner: Spoiler and Discussion

ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:34 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:28 am
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Location: Eyal
Okay.

Edit: Ritch and Hydra unlocks found and listed on the most recent list on page eight. Blighted customizable hydra sounds fun.

Edit: Nevermind. Customizable heads lose you 4 inventory slots for each non-basic head you take, and Three Spells only hits when you attack somebody in melee combat. Also, you lose class trees. Customizable Heads is really bad.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Wyrmic

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Spoilery Stuff I noticed while playing Hydra:

-Serpent's Glare didn't seem to do anything when eaten, although it did give +0.1 Ego/Serpent when clasped
-Eating Nexus of the Way gives you the Wayist talent that Yeeks get. Oddly, the mutation says that it should trigger when I take large amounts of damage, but I haven't noticed this.
-The special mutation you get from eating the Blood of Life doesn't go away once its been used up.
-When I fought the Grand Corrupter while Blighted and after killing Myssil solo, they offered to help "Remove the pain and suffering thae being blighted afflicts you with". I refused and just killed them. I'm assuming that this will reverse the -10 penalty to most stats that being Blighted gives you, which would have been useless for me since I had Blighted Summoning.
-I have no idea how to progress Reflections: Alone after the Feral head talks to you. I don't even know why the Feral head spoke in the first place. I also feel like I messed up the Zigur part of the quest by murdering Myssil too early.
-Ritch's reflections quest is much easier: Just get stabbed by a rogue and then poisoned and diseased later[I think you also have to be at low health for some of the later events]. Collecting cool knives also does something, although I don't know quite what.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:04 pm 
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Archmage

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Location: Eyal
The way it's talent is not yet working as intended, but that isn't how the grand corruptor works (you should have said yes). Check my list, which I need to repost.

NOTE: Since the update, accuracy is not guaranteed. Please tell me if you see anything incorrect!

Note: This is more spoilery than anything else here. This is a fairly full list of secret effects and unlocks. If you want to find these yourself, or just want small hints, don't read this.


Known Unlocks, Prodigies, and other Special Effects:
Progidies:
- (Hydra Progidy) 50 Cunning and 1 Prodigy Point and finding a very rare dialog option in the Clasp menu: Hat Trick - Allows the Hydra to clasp Necklaces and Headgear.
- (Drakeling Progidy) Inspecting or Picking up a Crown item (excluding crown of burning pain) while having 3 Drakelings (at least one with its "Ultimate" trait): Legacy: Crowns can be clasped normally, and at least one drakeling gets a special personality (possibly more effects or drakelings. I don't know)
- (Ritch Progidy) 50 Cunning and 1 Progidy Point and using the Killing Blade effect on a Bow (Plus special step listed at end of the Prodigies list): Death from Above - Allows you to craft bow Impermanence Weapons (Requires one metal item, one belt, one piece of jewelry, and a bow) using Death from Above and unlocks shoot talent.
----- Special Step for Ritch Prodigy: First attempt- Choices as such: Bowstring (Bow), (I don't know perfectly for this step. I used Improvise and a helmet), Jewelry, and a belt.
Unlocks:
- Winning the Game as an Avatar: Therian- Class for non-summons AND summons that has hydra, drakeling, and mantis skills.
- Corrupting the Sandworm Queen's Heart and using it: Unlock the "Visual:Blighted" option for all Avatars (under Customize tab) and unlock the Blighted Start for the Avatar class you were playing as. AND causes the current character to hit blight threshold (If they are blighted already, they get a bonus to blight skills (I don't remember by how much)).
- Start an Avatar Game: rexorcorum graphics under Customize tab.
- Becoming coronated as Enghryza Drakeling (Should be fixed): Unlock the "Become Enghryza, The Broodmother" option for Fire Drake. Enghryza doesn't get all of the class trees, losing Heatstroke and Lumbering Beast entirely , and starts with 1.5x in Dragon Brood and Dragon Scales, and 1.3x in Dragon Army and Dissension (They are still locked though), and 1.3x in Snarling Beast (Unlocked). All other trees start at 1.0x, excepting Fire Drake Aspect, which starts as .8x, as usual. Also starts as gargantuan, but without lumbering beast, that isn't a big deal. Odd note: Drakelings will refer to you as mother, but, the char. sheet will still refer to you as male if you chose male. I suppose there isn't much to do about that?
- Getting the three hydra mutations on one character (Crystal Focus, Serpent's Glare, Eye of the wyrm): Customizable Heads option for Hydra. Starts you with all head options, but you can only have three (possibly (untested) excluding decoy). Don't know what it does to reflections.
- Crafting weapon with the Bladed Rift (Ak'Gishil's drop): Unlock permanent blade for Ritch. Start with the unbreakable Bladed Rift weapon (a breakable version is also gotten by crafting it), but you cannot make other weapons.
Consume And Other effects:
- Corrupted Heart of The Sandworm Queen (All)(also an unlock): Causes the current character to hit blight threshold (If they are blighted already, they get a bonus to blight skills (I don't remember by how much)).
- Chromatic Harness (?): Effect Unknown.
- Rune of Reflection: Gives a passive amount of damage reflection (I don't know how much).
- Consuming Heart of The Sandworm Queen (Drakeling): Next Drakeling is Proud, Loving, Female Drakeling who starts with TL10 Growing Bones, TL5 Swallow, TL4 Quake, and TL2 Sand Breath. Also has 50/100 knowledge, some special text, and prefers to learn Savage Strength and Nature Hardened.
- Consuming Blighted Heart of the Sandworm Queen (Drakeling): Next drakeling is a blighted drakeling likely similar to the one above (I couldn't summon the drakeling, just consume the item).
- Using Heart of The Sandworm Queen (All): Gives Burrowing Beast generic tree (Locked) and normal effects.
- Wyrm Bile Normal Use: Plus a lot of blight in addition to normal. Not instant blight, to make this clear.
- Consuming Wyrm Bile (Drakeling): Some kind of corrupted Drakeling, I couldn't use it at the time.
- Wyrm Bile (Unknown Use?, Hydra): Effect unknown.
- Tooth of the Mouth (All): Gives a new natural attack, Tooth of the Mouth.
- Fiery Choker: (If you know the talent category "Ego/Dragon"): Improves "Ego/Dragon" by x0.1, +20% Cold Resistance, -20% Cold Damage. The Fiery Choker is a rare from Fyrk, the Faeros guard at Charred Scar (Portal from Var'Eyal in Eruan), so this is an extremely rare find. I have seen it about once in like 10 games.
- Saving Melinda (All): Use blue option when talking to Melinda to get either a rank in Summoner's Bond (Listening to Summoner) or Summoner's Disparity (Ignoring Summoner)
- The Gaping Maw (Drakeling): Next Drakeling is Tronos (Special Dialogue) Bonus Skills: Icy Skin 4, Ice Breath 2, and Ice Claw 5. Possibly other bonuses. Dislikes you. Tronos may have bonus stats. Prefers to learn Nature Hardened and Savage Strength. Humility, Fire Safety, and Aspiration 5.
- Wyrmbreath (Drakeling): Next Drakeling is Kanros (Special Dialogue) Extra Skills: Fire Breath 2, Devouring Flame 5, Bellowing Roar 4. Also, has Aspiration (Anti-Death) 3, and feels divided towards you. May have bonus stats, I can't tell. Special Dialogue.
- Storm Fury (Drakeling): Next Drakeling is Anklos, a Proud, Loving, Male "Storm Drake"-themed Drakeling whose preferred NC is "Rabbit's Foot" and "Elusiveness" (has VERY high Defense and Trap Evasion). It may be the effect listed below instead. I have had some trouble with that. Special Dialogue.
- Storm Fury (BLIGHTED Drakeling): Next Drakeling is Anklos, a Divided male Blighted Drakeling that starts with Abyssal Flames 2, Fearscape Blaze 5, and Shadow Flare 4. Special Dialogue.
- Primal Infusion (All): Gain 5 Wild Power.
- Eye of the Wyrm (Hydra): When "Clasped" by a Drool head, it gives Hydra an additional head, as well as TL2 of "Venomous Breath".
- Blood of Life (Consumed and Gluttonied): Instant revival upon next death.
- Swordbreaker (Ritch): When used as an Impermanence Weapon, grants +.1 to Metal Rending and +5 to Swordbreaker (possible minor glitches (I suddenly seem to have 7 out of 5 ranks in Swordbreaker)).
- Prox's Lucky Halfling Foot (All): Gives all Monstrosities + 10 luck (Note: It may not be ten, but my checking makes it seem so.)
- Hornet Stingers (Ritch, probably): Effect Unknown, should be tested soon.
- Crystal Focus (Hydra): Extra natural attack (Prismatic Bite) that attacks for 25% Wild, 120% Willpower, 240% Mag and does arcane damage.
- Tome of Dragoneering (Drakeling): Next drakeling will be Ghryza, a noble hating generalist (although dialogue options can reduce this) drakeling with unique dialogue. Starts with some snarling beast talents. Ghryza has special art, which does NOT receive the rexorcorum changes.
- Serpent's Glare (Drakeling, maybe Mantis, possibly Hydra?): When clasping, after a while, you will start feeling sick. You then gain Spit Poison for a while, but if you do not use it, you might get poisoned.
- Serpent's Glare (Hydra): Extra head (25% Wild, 30% Wil, 30% Cun, 50% Dex) that does nature damage over a few turns, gain talent Spit Poison at lvl 2
- Nexus of the Way (All, I think): Gives Wayist ability from Yeeks.
- Fists of the Desert Scorpion (All): Gives a projection attack that deals mind damage of a natural attack to an enemy. It can be upgraded with various other artifacts.
- Kinetic Focus (All): Gives/upgrades the projection attack (See Fists of the Desert Scorpion)
- Tree of Life (Likely all, Drakeling Definitely): Gives Soothing Shell, which heals you, allies, and enemies and can pacify enemies.
- Mnemonic: Find this one yourself. Some things I won't spoil. Good luck!
- Destroying the Zigur with the Grand Corrupter: Get the Blighted: Seething tree locked at 1.00x.
- Killing the Grand Corrupter after Destroying the Zigur with them: Seething tree improved/unlocked.
- Drinking the Ooze beneath the Slime Forest: Gain the Wild-Heart/Antimagic tree, and become antimagic. I noted that the zigur still tried to murder me after I got this.
- Grand Caller (Clasp): Gives a talent with a name like enrage. Haven't seen it myself, but multiple people have mentioned it.
- Rune of the Rift: Temporal Reprieves you for three turns, and gives you the induce anomaly talent. This talent can give you a special lore if you have the Embers of Rage addon rarely (The Wei... races lore)
------emblempride's------
- Behemoth Hide (All): Can be worn as a cloak.
- Serpentine Cloak (Hydra): Gives an extra +10 Wil, +5 Con (total 10), +20% Nature, +.10 Ego/Serpent
- Crystal Heart: On hit melee +12 or 10 arcane damage (other's report as ten, mine seems to be showing as 12)
----------------------------
Multi Game Non-Unlocks
Dragoneering Book: If you have finished the whole thing in a past game, and then beat it again, you get +.2 to drakeling brood talents

Things that are NOT usable of note: NOTE: Some of these may have been changed.
Both Final Boss Drops of ToME
Atamathon's Ruby Eye
Goedalath Rock
Dragon Helm of Kroltar
Siding with the Assassin Lord as a ritch
Shifting Boots

Starting the Arena gets the Wyrmbreath, The Gaping Maw, and Storm Fury (Blighted) drakes as your starting drakes (with the dialogue upon entry).
Say if you know any others.

As a side note: Customizable heads lose you 4 inventory slots for each non-basic head you take, and Three Spells only hits when you attack somebody in melee combat. Also, you lose class trees. Customizable Heads is really bad.


Last edited by Kamani on Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:59 am, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:50 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm
Posts: 619
@Kamani
I hate to tell you, but a lot of these effects are incorrect/outdated! For example, Tooth of the Mouth now grants an additional natural attack called "Tooth of the Mouth" when consumed. Also, Hat Trick now requires 50 Cunning instead of 50 Willpower.

You had best take another look at a few of these... :lol:


PS: I don't think you lose any talent trees for doing Customizable Heads...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:28 am
Posts: 331
Location: Eyal
Oops. But I mean that you can't invest in them if you don't take the relevant head.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:42 am 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm
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@Frumple
Tried it myself...

... Seems to work perfectly fine. :?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:05 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:28 am
Posts: 331
Location: Eyal
Works for me as well. Did you start a new game after disabling addons? Otherwise, I think they would still be active.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:16 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:38 pm
Posts: 350
AFAIK when you start a game with addons active (including official addons) they all should be present when loading savegames, or there is a reasonable chance that something will malfunction. Also, by default all the addons that were enabled when you started a game will be active when loading a save (regardless of being on/off in the Addons section), unless they have been removed from the folder.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:42 am 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:43 pm
Posts: 265
Okay, so I've been testing Hydra inside the Infinite Dungeon (in dev mode, just to see how stuff scales) and I've found some stuff.
First, you can get 8 Prismatic, Venomous and Crystallized Heads (not more, for reason see below).
Second, up to a certain talent level, your heads become quite ridiculous. With some levels in Triple Trouble, you can easily get 100% trigger chance, and talent level 14 in a "normal" head (with no mastery increase) provides a 1-turn "recharge" for heads.

However, there is a big problem coming up at any higher talent level. At an effective talent level of ~17, heads go down to a 0-turn recharge (the "normal" ones, Decoy and the special ones go down to 0 earlier).
This sounds broken, but in fact, it actually breaks the game (at least for me). As soon as you lose a head, the game just freezes.

If I'm not mistaken, there is also no way to rid yourself of Blighting in the ID (other than eating infusions, but that is probably insufficient) except picking Blighted Summoning.

And now for some neat to ridiculous scaling stuff:

Tear Apart is... really nice... when you have 40 heads (and a corresponding Natural Attack limit).
Triad of Threes goes down to a 1-turn cooldown at effective tl ~9.
Soul of Nature might be a bit broken at high levels. Increasing your absolute mind power is nice, but with 100+ Wildness, it gets ridiculous. At one time, I found myself wishing that you could get Inner Animal via Worldly Knowledge...
Same goes for Wild Resolve. At 200 Wildness, it doubles your effective health. Although Draconic Body is probably still better ;)
The +sight range Natural Combat Talent is pretty fun when you notice that Stare Down uses your sight range. Menacingly glaring at enemies from 21 tiles away is fun.
Metabolism... I don't know how to say this, but +1000% damage versus Constructs seems... a bit overkill.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm
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@Erenion
Wow! This is cool! I don't have any eyes inside the Infinite Dungeon, so I've never heard anything like this! :lol:

I'll be honest-- A good ToME designer is supposed to put "limitations" on EVERY talent so that none of them can scale to... Well, LITERALLY "game-breaking" levels (IE: The 0 cooldown on recharging heads), but my plate is so full right now with other stuff, I just really don't have the time to fix Infinite Dungeon problems.

... However, KEEP TALKING, I'm LISTENING! I'm absolutely interested in ALL of what you're saying. They're going onto my super-secret notepad of "things to Infinite Dungeon do" whenever it is I decide to start doing this-- And your name is going to be on it as thanks! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Sher'Tul Godslayer

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:00 am 
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Archmage

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:28 am
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Location: Eyal
Oh, but what I meant about the Customizable Heads losing you class trees is that if you don't take the relevant head type, you'll lose the tree excepting the first point. Also, the magic one only seems to deal damage in melee, and since my melee did about nothing early on, it is bad. I assume the others work the same.

Side Note: Does anyone know if there is an effect for siding with the assassin lord? I don't want to kill the poor merchant myself, so...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Wyrmic

Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:34 am
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Hi, I'm minmay and welcome to Jackass.

When making any addon it's very important to obey ToME4's existing scaling rules. Otherwise you end up with talents that are, for lack of a better word, broken. Even small violations of the scaling rules can result in serious problems (the Blacksmith tree in Embers is a good example). Ever wondered why weapons do huge insane amounts of damage late-game and on randbosses, whereas Mind Sear doesn't? It's mainly because weapon damage from stats (the "Uses stat: 100% str" thing) scales faster than pretty much everything else.

Hachem_Muche has a full guide to it . My recommendation to any addon developer is to read it, then read it again and again until you understand it, then read it one more time to be sure, and then consult the scaling factors table every time you make or modify a talent.

In most of the natural-combat talents, you have a scaling factor of 1.40 for all effects. Nothing is supposed to scale that fast. Nothing. As a result, late-game Odyssey classes are nigh-invulnerable to weapon damage (because of Nature Hardened) and save-able status effects (because of Elusiveness and Extrasensory), along with having enormous life pools, powers, and melee damage. This will become even more visible .

You also have these talents and effects that "absolutely" increase power or reduce saves. This is a huge, egregious scaling violation. It cannot scale properly; indeed, all you've done is specifically removed its ability to scale properly. These need to go.

Finally, there's Treasure Hoarder's Will. If we ignore for a moment that you'll vore more, higher-quality items over time, the scaling rate for this is still incredibly fast; it can't even rightly be described as quadratic or exponential because if not for the hard cap of 1 encumbrance, it'd reach infinity shortly after effective talent level 10. And because you will vore more higher-quality items over time, the actual scaling is even more dramatic than that. The result is that you can vore Rod of Sarrilon alone to get like +40 to all stats.

I assume there are lots of other scaling violations, but I'm too lazy to look through every talent.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Uruivellas

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm
Posts: 619
@minmay
I'm quite aware of all the scaling issues, thank you. However, I'm sure you may have also noticed: This add-on is NOT designed to be played in the Infinite Dungeon (not yet at least), nor can *ANY* NPC use these talents whatsoever (asides from Drakelings, but THEY are regulated by my own systems, as well as a custom AI). If you choose to play it in the Infinite Dungeon (where talents BREAK their upper limits), I take no responsibility for what happens next whatsoever, be it OPness or bugginess.

... Anyways, I can understand you're trying to "help", but most of what you're talking about doesn't really apply here, since Odyssey of The Summoner *ALREADY* doesn't follow MANY of the Tales of Maj'Eyal conventions. As for Natural Combat, the scaling needed to be that way in order to give it that "exponential growth in benefits" it currently has-- But I guess that doesn't matter if the numbers get a bit high around Talent Level 347 or something-- God forbid the game crashes when your talent level is something it should never be at!

... And, as a future point, if you're going to give advice, be respectful and AT LEAST direct it TOWARDS the individual and not make it sound like a stolen bit from something much funnier. I also don't appreciate you pointing me to SOMEONE ELSE'S guide, because it implies *you* don't really understand what you are saying in the first place and makes me feel less inclined to listen to you.
"I should ignore minmay and read what that guide says." ... Know what I mean?


RE: "A certain prodigy"
I see. Worldly Knowledge is getting a rather POWERFUL buff... Sheesh! I honestly like what it currently does, and will probably have to make my own version of it such that it is still "usable" by my classes (I have some big things planned for this uber). It would also explain why certain characters I've seen had an absurdly higher amount of talent mastery than normal.

... Nevertheless, until this update comes through, I have no time to really think about it. I have already made many plans, and those can't change now.

RE: "Treasure Hoarder's Will"... Again.
Treasure Hoarder's Will has always been a number-nightmare, but I'm (very carefully) trying to tone it down WITHOUT turning it into a garbage talent. It has the VERY important role of making objects remain valuable and important to players, and is limited by the fact that it's only as strong as your "treasure collection" is. "Item's Vault"? Well, we ALL know that's a cheat, so put that out of your mind-- You might as well just SPAWN artifacts in!


PS: Regardless of how annoyed I seem, I *HAVE* taken your suggestions to heart. Although, your post VERY MUCH did annoy me.

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